The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/index.php)
-   The Books (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Foolish Sauron... (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14547)

zxcvbn 01-04-2008 11:44 AM

Foolish Sauron...
 
Sauron used the Great Rings to enslave nine Kings of Men who later became his greatest servants, the Nazgul. Now, the question is, seeing how the nazgul were far deadlier and more loyal than any living servants, why didn't Sauron forge more Great Rings to distribute to his many human servants? This way he could have had hundreds of Nazgul at his command.

No, I'm not joking. What are your opinions?

TheGreatElvenWarrior 01-04-2008 11:57 AM

Zxcvbn, Sauron helped in making 20 rings 19 of those were not the Master Ring. So he thought that he would have 19 wraiths, not just nine. Besides, it probably took a lot of power making those anyway.

The Might 01-04-2008 01:02 PM

I don't think he could make such rings by himself. Think about it, if he had the possibility to make such things then he could have created hundreds, thousands even. But he needed the smiths of Eregion to make them for him.

Indeed he made the One, but the One is totally different from the others, it is the Ring that controls all the others.
And when he told the Elves to make them he probably thought that this quantity would be enough for him to enslave all the free people of M-e.

Quote:

For in that time he was not yet evil to behold, and they received his aid and grew mighty in craft, whereas he learned all their secrets, and betrayed them, and forged secretly in the Mountain of Fire the One Ring to be their master.
So clearly he did learn some things from the Elves of Eregion.

Or maybe he simply was not able to control more with the One Ring...although I don't think this is stated anywhere.

William Cloud Hicklin 01-04-2008 01:28 PM

Modest correction: Sauron had no role at all in the making of the Three. And his plan was to have Dwarf-wraiths as well, presumably the kings of each Folk; but he erred, since although Dwarves are 'mortal' they just don't do the wraith thing.

Lord Halsar 01-04-2008 05:57 PM

Indeed. And this topic has come up in another thread.
"A 10th Nazgul?" was the name I believe. An interesting thread that I had my part in.

Groin Redbeard 01-05-2008 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatElvenWarrior (Post 542091)
Zxcvbn, Sauron helped in making 20 rings 19 of those were not the Master Ring. So he thought that he would have 19 wraiths, not just nine. Besides, it probably took a lot of power making those anyway.

Correct Elven Warrior! Sauron mingled his blood and soul into the one Ring; it is quite possible he did the same, to a lesser degree, with the others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli
Modest correction: Sauron had no role at all in the making of the Three. And his plan was to have Dwarf-wraiths as well, presumably the kings of each Folk; but he erred, since although Dwarves are 'mortal' they just don't do the wraith thing.

Hehe, good ol' dwarves!:D

Gwathagor 01-05-2008 10:43 PM

First, I agree that making Rings of Power was probably a lot of work. Not sometihng you do for fun.

Second, you can't just go around handing out rings to everyone. It reduces the coolness of having one, because it's no longer an exclusive club.

Third, it's easier for Sauron to control the races of Middle-earth through a few powerful subordinates who will theoretically (didn't work out, of course) do your bidding to the letter. It's less management for the big man. Delegation is an essential leadership quality.

zxcvbn 01-06-2008 09:20 AM

With the exception of the One all the Rings were forged by the Elves with Sauron's instruction, and I doubt they poured any of their spirits into it like he did. So if Sauron learned all their secrets, why didn't he forge more Rings? Given the power of the Nazgul, better to have more of them than less.

William Cloud Hicklin 01-06-2008 10:19 AM

Remember Feanor, and Yavanna? In the Tolkienverse some Great Works can only be made once, and never repeated. If Sauron were capable of making another Ring surely he would have made another One, first off!

zxcvbn 01-06-2008 10:38 AM

But Celebrimbor created many Rings, so that atleast was a Great Work that could be repeated. Sauron was certainly much greater than Celebrimbor, and so could have created many more.

Elmo 01-06-2008 11:10 AM

The One Ring was much more powerful then the lesser rings
as it could control or at least limit what they could do.

Gwathagor 01-06-2008 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zxcvbn (Post 542296)
With the exception of the One all the Rings were forged by the Elves with Sauron's instruction, and I doubt they poured any of their spirits into it like he did. So if Sauron learned all their secrets, why didn't he forge more Rings? Given the power of the Nazgul, better to have more of them than less.

I think not. The power of the Nazgul was fear, and if EVERYBODY is a nazgul, then they aren't scary anymore. Giving rings to that many people would also involve diminishing the power of each, as power can't just be created. It has to come from somewhere, in this case out of the ringmaker. Like a physics equation.

The Might 01-06-2008 06:33 PM

Great argument WCH, and this seems to go well with my earlier thought.
He simply was not able to.

I disagree there Gwathagor, I am sure that if he could he would have made more Rings to have more Wraiths and I agree on the power part. Simply look at what happens in LotR - to have complete control of them he had to take their Rings away from them. Which means he wasn't that great to control thousands, he might not have really handled 10.

I am sure he planned it very well when he gave the Rings to others. He knew how much he could afford to do and this is how much he did. As such a 10th Nazgul might have been useful, but no longer quite possible. After all, Maiar have their limits too.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.