Who were the Nazgul?
 

Who were the Nazgul?:-

- Which race of men did each come from?

- How did each Nazgul rank to each other?

- What were their names?

- Did they have any descendants?

- Why did they fear fire?

As far as I know, the race of only three of them is known:
Khamul, the second to the witch-king, is called the "black easterling" in the Hunt for the Ring, Unfinished Tales, and the Shadow of the east. For the rest, I know no other information.

Only wanted to add that, as far as their ranks are concerned, they are based on their link to the Ring, and not on their previous status in a certain society. For example it is said about the Witch-king that he was always most ready to sense the presence of the Ring. Second to him in this was Khamul, who was also the one to be most disturbed by sunlight. So clearly their qualities differed, perhaps creating a certain hierarchy.
About your descendants question...I don't know any answer either. Could be, but considering this shroud of mystery around them, I doubt that such things would have been known.

Yes, I think TM quite got it. There is not much information about them apart from what was said here. Only to that fire thing,
I think fire might represent here the cleansing power, something which gives light in the darkness, and also the heat: as an opposite to cold and death the Riders represent. It is just a speculation, however, can't think of much more.

The Witch King didn't seem to be afraid of the fire than ran down his blade when he confronted Gandalf. Also, if the Nazgul fear fire, doesn't than mean they would be in great fear of the Balrog in battle?

What were their names?
 

In short... we don't know.

I think not (about the Balrog). You see, that was the "evil" fire (cf. the quote above). You can imagine it, fire, that does not give heat to warm up your bones, but unbearable heat to kill you, or a consuming, destroying fire. However the quote implies that the Nazgul were especially afraid of fire in all its aspects, this just signifies their connection with night and darkness. But if it came to this, they could have used the fire for evil - something like the Orcs could, though with reluctance, roam the surface in sunlight.
But in general - I think that the idea of "if the Nazgul ever encountered the balrog" would be most probably unimaginable in Middle-Earth. After all, Nazgul never encountered the Balrog and I think Tolkien didn't even want them to. He avoided things like this. We do not know enough about the Nazgul nor about the Balrog (do they have wings?) to decide such a thing, and the Professor didn't provide any such informations. As far as I now, that is.

The Nazgul could have acquired the services of the Balrog in Mordor. The Balrog then would have taken command as the chief servant of Sauron perhaps, although there is no evidence that the Balrog recognised Sauron as his master, only the now departed Morgoth.

Balrog in Mordor???

Mansun, as far as I am aware, you are only quoting from the Grey Havens website, not from Tolkien, as one could wonder at your post. All of that is a matter of pure speculation.

Why quote when you can link?
 

There's an article about this on Alcuin's site that's well worth a look. Origins of the Nazgûl and the Downfall of Númenor.

It is worth mentioning that Numenor began to fell long before the nazgul appeared, and signs of it were appearring hundreds of years before. A synopsys of problems would reveal that:
- Tar-Aldarion is already described as: proud, bent on his will; he was ever and in every course the more opposed as those about him urged it
- Tar Meneldur worried about his voyages
- Aldarion removes to a ship instead of Armenelos
- Tar-Meneldur looked coldly on the enterprises of his son, and cared not to hear the tale of his journeys, believing that he sowed the seeds of restlessness and the desire of other lands to hold
- Aldarion estranged from his father
- Meneldur “ever opposed his son”; he curbs the felling of trees for building ships
- Aldarion refuses to remain in Numenor and seek wife
- he goes in pursuit of gold and silver, despite his father remark that these only serve for pride; "I will not wed until I must; and further", if he is pressed to;
- at the first departure of Palarran he is refused the blessing of the king and the bough of oiolaire
- the second departure of Palarran is despite the king’s ban, with bough from Erendis; closing of the Venturers Guildhouse and of the shipyards of Romenna
- third voyage: ban on departure and on all women to bring the bough of return; he meets hostile winds, which batter his ships; Vinyalonde overthrown by great seas; his ship is struck by lightning and dismasted
- Nuneth speaks of the heat in Aldarion’s mind: “Aldarion was a man long-sighted, and he looked forward to days when the people would need more room and greater wealth; and whether he himself knew this clearly or no, he dreamed of the glory of Numenor and the power of its kings, and he sought for footholds whence they could step to wider dominion".
- Aldarion stayed in his house for a very brief time after the birth of his daughter, according to the Numenoreans' idea of the fitness of things.
and Erendis sought ever to mould her daughter Ancalime to her own mind, and to feed her upon her own bitterness against men; she “"has dismissed the Elven-birds (given by Elves at her wedding), and that was ill done. It bodes no good”
- the strife between Ancalime and Hallacar; Ancalilme ruling for more years than any after Elros
- Tar-Telperien's refusal to wed

Above these details, Tolkien makes the fall of Numenor as foremost representative of human failings. There are three stages of the "second fall", as he calls it: devotion to sea-voyages and exploring; Pride & Glory; Tar Calion. Concerning the second stage, he stated:
Thus, the fall of Numenor is explained by human faillings. While a nazgul working in Numenor is possible, it would have made the above explanation of events by Tolkien obsolete and his point about huma nature void.

One would also wonder if Sauron would risk sending one or more nazgul, with their rings, alone amid the numenoreans, knowing their gifts, knowing there still are many faithfuls there. At least using the ring to become invisible turns one invisible permanently - yet such a nazgul could not work in Numenor at all [also, I, for one, consider that a nazgul is permanently invisible, I know of no instance when a nazgul has a visible body]. Last but not least, there is no mention of nazgul being in Numenor.

I think Erik Tracy has explained Tolkein's work in a balanced way, & in a good context. It may well be speculation to some extent, but very promising nonetheless. Balrogs afterall were the servants of Morgoth, not Sauron; they did not have a great part of their original strength taken away from them like Sauron did either. In the LOTR Sauron did not even try to acquire the Balrog for aid. In terms of commanding will, why would a Balrog submit to Sauron given the circumstances of power each has? A strong case could be made that the Balrog could even rival Sauron in combat, irrespective of whether it lost.

Since Tolkien's writings, even his speculations, take precedence over any other person's ideas, it is therefore a good practice to state the source of your quotes, as most, if not all, the members of this forum would interpret an unsigned quote as belonging to Tolkien. I know I did until I looked it up.
But Melkor and Sauron lost a great deal of their power in evil deeds; since the the balrogs too were heavily involved in evil deeds, their power must have diminished in time too, esspecially if they engaged in procreation, as Tolkien speculated in Myths Transformed.
We don't know under which circumstances a balrog submits, or when this particular balrog would submit. For all intents and purposes, Sauron inherited Melkor's place; for all we know, balrogs respected their master's will in all instances - I would expect them to recognise Sauron's authority too. I am not aware of any case in which a former servant of Melkor challenged Sauron's 'rightful' place.

We do know that a Balrog will attack the enemies of Melkor, therefore the enemies of Sauron too. But there is no evidence that a Balrog will serve anyone else but Melkor. There is every reason to believe that a Balrog probably would not get involved with Sauron as his master, or as a challenger to Sauron for the inheritance of Melkor's position of command, hence it's long absence in the dark realms of Moria, unconcerned with what Sauron & the Nazgul do in Middle-Earth. But by the same token, did Sauron need the Balrog's help? With his current strength in arms, a Balrog would not be needed, although it would be very handy to inspire dreadful fear into any opponent & Sauron does like to play mind games involving this.

"The Dark Lord has Nine, but we have One, mightier than they - the White Rider. He has passed through flame and abyss, and they shall fear him." Aragorn may well be implying that Gandalf slew a great enemy that Mordor itself feared.

You may be right; I will leave this part at this, since speculation would lead us nowhere.
Nothing in that quote shows a hostile intent from the balrog, so there is no need for Mordor to fear him. If Sauron thought he was a threat somehow, he would have ordered the implosion of Moria on his head.

Sauron may have thought of the Balrog as the equivalent of Shelob in Cirith Ungol, as a guardian of a domain that belonged to Mordor but nevertheless a co-existance was inadvertantly made, since it prevented the enemy from seizing it.

The difference that I can see is that Shelob is the offspring of Ungoliant, who initially was allied with Melkor, but then went her own way. So Shelob seems to have a similar status. The Balrog were lieutenants of Melkor in the a same sense that Sauron was, even if their role was more exclusively for battle. OK, Melkor is gone, but I don't see any reason why the Balrog would be rivals or enemies. But by the same token, I can't see the Balrogs serving Sauron directly, given their more or less equivalent status and their different roles...

This Balrog thing has nothing to do with this thread, so get back to the subject Who Were the Nazgul?!

Classic thread drift!!

On the Nazgul, I have never quite understood how "Black Easterlings" could come to be called Numenorean, or vice versa. I guess it depends on the origin of ALL the people given the right to populate Numenor.

Or, was this a case of the Numenoreans taking over Umbar such that the Corsairs, or nearby peoples, became identified as being "Numenorean". The latter seems more likely to me.

The other question is when exactly 9 Nazgul were identified. One logical source of the Nazgul would be from the kingdom of Rhudaur, which was corrupted relatively early on in the 3rd Age. Unless there is some evidence that all 9 Nazgul were active before this time (i.e., before 1400 or so)...

Not sure if I understood your post correctly, but if I did, then:
It is explicitely said that only three of the Nazgul were "Númenorean lords". The others were "great kings of Men", which does not exclude the possibility that the other six Nazgul came from other nations of Middle-Earth. And what more, I think it would seem logical that Sauron recruited many of his servants from the Men who lived in Rhun or Harad or other lands which were under his dominion.

Okay, I will recapitulate it everything only to make it clear. First activity of Nazgul at all was spotted around 2250 Second Age (they were already Ringwraith at that time). Most of Middle-Earth was under Sauron's dominion. The Númenoreans still lived on Númenor, but they also took part in what was happening in Middle-Earth. Thus, it is very probable that they also learned of the Nine. With the Fall, at the end of Second Age, the Faithful came to Middle-Earth and founded the realms of Arnor and Gondor. The knowledge of the Nazgul was then passed by the residents of Arnor and Gondor, and the wise Elves... but largely it was supposed that the Nine have vanished with Sauron. Rhudaur was only part was corrupted in the 2nd millenium of the Third Age, after the Witch-King rose in Angmar. But apart from the Wise, I think no one knew who the Witch-King really is. There have been also suspicions who was the resident of Dol Guldur (Sauron) and some thought it might be one of the Nine. But until Sauron rose again in Mordor and the Nine started their hunt for the Ring, I think no one knew exactly whether they were or were not in Middle-Earth (or if they were all or just some of them), or in Sauron's service anymore. Perhaps Saruman knew, since he studied the knowledge of the Enemy for a long time... but others surely not:

This sounds like Gandalf when he tells off Pippin in the House of Elrond!

I believe there is some link between the Nazgul & their fear of fire in relation to Balrogs. Also, there is no harm with comparing the powers of the Nazgul with that of a Balrog, Melkor's greatest servants just behind Sauron.

What is the source for this--the Appendix in Return of the King, or is this mentioned also elsewhere??

It's the Appendix B - the Tale of Years, entry for the year 2251 SA

No, that can't work. The Nazgul had to have been corrupted while Sauron could still control their Rings- i.e. before he lost the One at the end of the Second Age.

Yes, that makes sense.