Over my dead (gorgeous) body.
 

I was pondering a location change for quite a while, as Meneltarma had absolutely no connection to my “son of Finrod” personality. So I was thinking of “Tol Sirion, grieving over my father's grave.” Then, out of the blue, I wondered: How in bloody blazes did someone's corpse make that place inviolable.

Then the wondering expanded to all the graves, tombs, and cairns I have known. So now, I have gathered a list of the most exciting ( :D ) places in Middle-earth, with some of the things I know about them, and more of my questions. In chronological order:

~Fingolfin's cairn in Echoriath.

No Orc dared ever after to pass over the mount of Fingolfin, or draw nigh his tomb, until the doom of Gondolin was come and treachery was born among his kin.

TS 18

This protection may be construed as coincidence, considering before Maeglin's treachery nobody would be wonky enough to go in that area.

~Finrod's grave in Tol Sirion.

[T]he green grave of Finrod Finarfin's son, fairest of all the princes of the Elves, remained inviolate, until the land was changed and broken, and foundered under the destroying sea.

TS 19

Here begins the wondering for me. After Nirnaeth why did Morgoth not take Tol Sirion?

a. He no longer needs to command the Pass of Sirion (possible, but slightly unlikely).

b. Some power really is protecting Tol Sirion from evil. The isle was made inviolably clean (as the quoted passage said) by said power. This is perhaps opposite of Glaurung’s defilement of Helevorn and Ivrin. But what power did it? Was it really Felagund’s grave? How?

~Haudh-en-Ndengin.

But grass came [in Haudh-en-Ndengin] and grew again long and green upon that hill, alone in all the desert that Morgoth made; and no creature of Morgoth trod thereafter upon the earth beneath which the swords of the Eldar and Edain crumbled into rust.

TS 20

Another instance of a place made inviolably clean, or the bane-spells on the Noldorin swords diffusing through the soil?

~Haudh-en-Elleth.

[Túrin] could not endure that the Orcs should come to the crossings of Teiglin or draw nigh to Haudh-en-Elleth [where Finduilas, daughter of Orodreth, was laid], and he made that a place of dread for them, so that they shunned it.

TS 21

Duh. Túrin protected this one.

~Elendil’s Tomb at Amon Anwar.

[A]s Isildur had prayed [Elendil’s tomb] was in the keeping of the Valar; for though the woods might grow tangled and be avoided by men because of the silence, so that the upward path was lost, still when the way was reopened the hallow was found unweathered and unprofaned, ever-green and at peace under the sky . . .

UT III 2

In the keeping of the Valar . . . perhaps Yavanna sent some of her servants there, or went there herself, reminiscent of Ulmo’s care for many places in Beleriand.

~Haudh in Gwanur.

The Riders buried [Folcred and Fastred, sons of Folcwine] after the fashion of their people, and they were laid in one mound, for they were twin brothers. Long it stood, Haudh in Gwanur, high upon the shores of the [River Poros], and the enemies of Gondor feared to pass it.

LR Appendix A I iv

Duh. Who wants to be reminded of their defeat?

~Théodred’s mound in the Fords of Isen.

It is told that [Grimbold] set up on stakes all about the eyot the heads of the axemen that had been slain there, but above the hasty mound of Théodred in the middle was set his banner. “That will be defence enough,” he said.

UT III 5, footnote 8

Psy-ops, obviously. Who wouldn’t be at least a bit scared of the heads of your comrades on stakes? What they lack is a good Vlad the Impaler.

But did it work well? Not exactly.


If it seems to you that I discount some of the quotes’ obvious meanings, it’s because I have no idea how someone's body could protect a place, and I’m thinking of alternate ideas why the bad guys didn’t want to be near that place.

There may be others that I have forgotten, but they may not be relevant to the discussion anyway. Of course, I could be wrong.

Force of will. Indomitable will. Possibly magic is involved. Also: it is a device to make the deaths of those characters more symbolic and profound.

Last will?
 

The plot device part I understand. But the other thing, the force of will part, I can't understand. Whose will? The deceased? How could they project their will?

The will of the deceased, yes. I was mostly kidding with that part. Though I don't think that anybody would say that those characters were weak willed.

I would also like to add that while this topic was made as a question, and as a question is easily answered, it brings up a very important point in the legendarium, and one well worth discussing.

I was half asleep when I decided to come back downstairs and post that. You had better feel special.

Is it to do with the dead 'living' somewhere else, so to speak? They are dead as far as Middle-earth is concerned but they are still able to affect Middle-earth from another place.

I find the idea of ghosts pretty untenable, but it still makes for a nice story.

I think a lot of what Tolkien wrote about burial mounds comes from myth and folklore. The ancients worshiped such places as entrances to the underworld. If the person buried within was pure, then so was the mound, and it was an entry to paradise, if on the other hand the person was evil, then it was a place of dread. We see this after The Witch-King corrupts Tyrn Gorthad.

This is an interesting question. I'm intrigued by Eomer's idea of the dead living somewhere else.
The spirits of dead elves (and men) go to the Halls of Mandos. Tolkien said that the elves, after a time, could be re-embodied and go to join their kin in Aman.
Perhaps from there, they are able to 'watch over' their graves on Middle Earth, as Arwen 'watched over' Aragorn, from afar?

No. It doesn't have anything to do with that. Except folklore. Kind of.

You are nothing if not definite in your observations Burrahobbit! That's it? End of discussion?

narfforc said:In Icelandic, Scandanavian, Celtic and Ancient British folklore (among others) there are also tales that have burial mounds being places where one could enter the Land of Faerie. Perhaps it is simply that Professor Tolkien was influenced by these ideas and tales when he wished to emphasise the tragic deaths of those interred in the mounds.
As far as I understand it, barrows and burial mounds are also said to be particularly strong in magnetic and or magical influence as they are often constructed at the meeting points of ley lines. I don't know much about ley lines and such, so I would not like to dismiss the idea out of hand.

Re:
 

Nobody messed with the Barrow Downs, or the Paths of the Dead ... or the Mere of Dead Faces.

Why? They were haunted.

Now, while "fell spirits" are different from great warriors and lords who fell at their peak ... the idea that the dead are something to be respected and left alone still stand.

A grave is a holy place ...

And we all know vampires have a thing about holy ground ...

Nobody treaded on the "Death Down" at Helm's Deep either. People didn't want any nasty orc ghost cursing them maybe ... but more likely they just shuddered at the thought of going near a mass grave.

So ... 1 part respect for the dead, 1 part fear of supernatural, and 1 part genuine concern that your head could be the next one speared and put on display, and the power of these places is obvious.

I have read before that animals such as cats and dogs have a sense of awareness that is beyond ours and hence what they detect is not within our capability to comprehend. Perhaps there is some residual aura or potency in the remains of the dead which can only be percieved by such animals and make then uneasy? Orcs included of course.

As for those which do not partake in this gift, perhaps its the reputation of the dead and fear of the unknown that prevents them from entering what they percieve as a "haunted" forbidden ground. Imagine after all, runs wild.