[Treebeard/Tom Bombadil] Fangorn/Treebeard= Oldest?
Hello everybody!
I´m just wondering if Fangorn is the oldest living being in ME? And if so isn´t the case, then who is? thx for any replys [ June 24, 2003: Message edited by: The Barrow-Wight ] |
He's an Ent.
I may be wrong, but I always figured the Ents were awoken shortly after the Elves. Certainly not before. I believe Cirdan of Grey Havens may still be an elf from this period, so may be even older than Treebeard. Who is the oldest? I think that's up for debate, but I would put my money on Tom Bombadil. Then again, that would all depend on exactly what you thought Tom was as well. H.C. [ March 23, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ] |
Quote:
|
Is not Tom Bombadil 'the oldest and the fatherless' making him the oldest, whatever you think he is.
|
But Tom's not really a creature of ME, he's a Maiar (or so we think). And I can see this topic is going to be shut down becuase there are a thousand other topics about who the older person in ME is.
|
But I think Fangorn says something like: "I am the oldest" (my book is stolen :s so i cant check it right now)... Do you know anything about this?
|
I would say Fangorn was the oldest living thing, because Manwë said that when the Children awoke, so would the Ents. Although so far in the Silmarillion, it hasn't mentioned anything about Tom Bombadil.
|
I don't have a book around either, but perhaps he meant of creatures he'd met. I'm just guessing, and probably wrong, though.
|
I would be inclined to say that they are the oldest living beings, since they were made just after the dwarves were fashioned, which is before the Elves came. Yarvanna made them to protect the trees, and Treebeard gives reference in LOTR as to being the oldest of his race. The only one older might be Tom Bombadil, and I'm not sure if he counts.
|
The way a read it is that the dwarves were made, but then put to sleep and only awoken after the elves, who've been asleep much longer than that. I think it's debatable as to which is older (and I'm sure it's been debated to death anyway [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )
H.c. |
correct me if i am wrong, but wernt ents origionally trees that were awoken? because they turn back into trees after a wile or so the oldest ents other then treebeard did. so technichly wouldnt that make him be the oldest because there were trees when the elves were awoken, were there not?
|
It's confusing, as there seem to be two theories. That that the first ents "awoke" much as the elves did, being created by Mawnë or Eru. And then there is the explanation that they were awakened by the elves, which seems to fit what Treebeard says, but not what is implied in the Silm.
|
The dwarves were alive before they were put asleep. "and the Dwarves shrank from the hammer and were afraid, and they bowed down their heads and begged for mercy." page 41, The Silmarillion. If you are going to allow Tom Bombadil, then he would have to be the oldest. He says that he was there before the trees and the first raindrop. That last part is a pretty serious statement. I take it to mean that he was there before Manwe and Ulmo got together to invent rain. That's old. He also says that he was there before the dark one came from the outside (paraphrase). This statement does not make clear weather he means before Melkor came the first time or after his three age imprisiment, but that is a discussion for another thread. Thanks.
|
Iarwain Ben-Adar, Eldest and Fatherless, he was awake before the elves, before the dwarves, he witnessed everything.
|
Well Tom Bombadil is the oldest of course.
Quote:
|
I always thought that the evolution of the ents was intended to be a combination of both the Silmarillion and what Treebeard tells Merry and Pippin.
>The elves awake >The ents awake shortly after the elves do >The elves converse with the ents and teach them to speak >The whole "Entwives" episode occurs I'll talk about Tommy when I have a few books cracked open to back up my BS [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] |
The esteemed Mr. Bombadil aside, the Silmarillion states that Ents would come at the awakening of the Elves. Yavanna had conceived of them in the music of the Ainur and they are as old as any of the children of Eru but.
Quote:
|
Quote:
Not Treebeard, definitely. When asked about the matter, Tolkien noted that while Treebeard does have some wisdom, he is not all-knowing. He is not the author, but just a character in the author's story. From Letter No. 153: Quote:
|
Thanks for the link, Legolas - closing this thread. Please continue on the other one.
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:28 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.