I just don't understand.
 

Here's a question for all of you.

Why is it that Legolas, from the movie, gets made fun of on account of his good looks, his way of walking, and fighting, and anything else? I could see people making fun of Frodo or Gimli, both of who's characters they managed to butcher pretty well, but why Legolas?

I'm wondering because I have seen soooo many jokes about his hair and him walking like a girl, or being like a ballerina that it's ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that I don't get it. I'm not a Legolas lover, I'm not a fan of Orlando Bloom - I'm just wondering why - when there's nothing really wrong with him in the movie? (I actually think he was done rather well....)

Anyhow, there's my querry.

-- Folwren

Jealousy. ;) :D

Well...perhaps these excerpts from the scripts will enlighten you...

***

[LEGOLAS looks out over the plains of Rohan and sees that the orcs are taking the hobbits to Isengard.]

LEGOLAS: They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!

***

[ARAGORN explains his plan to march on Mordor and divert Sauron's attention from Sam and Frodo.]

LEGOLAS: A diversion!

***

[At the Council of Elrond, ARAGORN is revealed as the heir of Isildur.]

LEGOLAS (to BOROMIR): You owe him your allegiance!

***

[In Meduseld, the Rohirrim explain the concept of a drinking game.]

LEGOLAS: A drinking game!

***

[In the pass at Caradhras SARUMAN'S voice reverberates amongst the rocks.]

LEGOLAS: There is a fell voice in the air!

Oh come now -- this one is a little harsh. Surely you have said the obvious to someone who is not doing the obvious.

Boromir did not show due allegiance to Aragorn therefore Legolas told him to do so.

As for the others, I'll just say that sadly his lines were left to explain things for those members of the audience who didn't know -- the Isildur's heir and such, a little reminder of who's who for those people who weren't as knowledgeable as some -- and for those who just aren't particularly bright to help point them in the right direction of thought.

Leggy-Bopper. :p

The lines that the script writer gave to Legolas has nothing to do with how he walks and acts and looks. It is not his fault that he had so little to say. The few lines he got he did well.

Besides, it's almost anyone's reaction to put a definision to a new game or thing that someone is telling you about. If someone were to say, "Hey, I know an interesting game where we both run and try to reach that tree over there and the first one wins!" I would probably reply, not stupidly, but observantly, and probably with the thought 'Why didn't you say this?' " A race!"

Really. . .these are all very lame excuses thus far.

-- Folwren

well I suppose in the film he is Prince Legolas the Perpetually Surprised - by things that aren't particularly surprising..especially for one who could (presumably) measure his time in Arda by centuries if not millenia. In FOTR he seemed startled by evidence of Orcs in Moria, crows ... just flying in the sky as birds do..not tap dancing or talking or anything wierd ...half expected him to arrive in Lorien and exclaim "Trees" ..and in TTT he was the worlds worst look out despite elvish senses.

To be fair it is quite hard to find ways to make a human playing an elf have that special quality, the otherness, that all the book characters recognize even if they have not had contact with them - and yet remain close enough to humans to make intermarriage not seem wierd. With Legolas, it is hardest because he is one of the company .. can't put him in an aura of light in the same way as say Galadriel (and if you haven't seen the exhibition her dress was so beautifully made that it did seem to radiate light) - he ended up being a bit fey and an disconcerting shade of blonde (shades of Village of the Damned)....

Poor Orlando with his clipped. Drama. School. Acting.

:D

It was the dreadful stunts that got to me, swinging off of elephant trunks like Tarzan in green opaque tights and making out like he was the Tony Hawks of Helm's Deep.

But really, it wasn't Orlando's fault he got awful lines and they turned him into a Himbo. As if to add insult to injury in his next big role he had to attempt to act in the face of Johnny Depp's magnificent scene stealing Jack Sparrow.

For me, it was the fact that he didn't live up to the mental image I had built up about Legolas and what he should look like. Most of the other characters I could live with being as they were, not too different from my book image.
Legolas was the only one who was too far withdrawn from my original idea of what he should look like.

I, of course (and I assume everyone else) thought he looked like this. Didn't you? :p

On a serious note, I think that, as with most running gags, it stemmed from lost roots and is now a well established joke and will go on until everyone is tyred of it.

I think there is two problems that make it a larger problem overall.

First and the most obvious is the obnoxious fan-girls who were so wooed over Legolas. It was the 'Oh he's so hot' remarks that annoyed me. It seems that they only were interested in LotRs because of his relative hotness.

Secondly, the over did the Legolas character. He's a good warrior with great bowmanship and swordsmanship but he's not a super hero or super surfer. The shield surfing was obnoxious but most obnoxious to me was the oliphant riding.

They made Legolas be the heart throb, so to speak, and it disgusted me as a fan.

Also Fordim had some good points too.

Edit: Cross posted with everything after Fordim's "leggy-booper" post. I was really busy at work.

Ah. I see. I understand the annoyingness of the Legolas Fan-Girls. What rumors I heard of them amused me to pieces, but I understand how too much of it could be bothersome. Not enough to turn me away from Legolas.

However, his stunts - leaping onto horseback by swinging himself up with his hand on the collar thing of his horse, climbing up the Oliphaunt and the shield thing in Helm's Deep - were a bit much. However, I think that he looked like an elf, and when he wasn't doing anything that an elf couldn't and wouldn't realisticially do, I thought he did alright. His lines in the FotR make me laugh (have you ever quoted them by themslves all the way through? It takes about .... 30 seconds), but from what I remember, his lines in the other movies are alright.

I especially liked the fact that he walked on top of the snow.

That's all I've time for for now. They're calling me in to fold laundry. :rolleyes: *sigh* More opinions would be nice.

-- Folwren

Me too. I've always defended Legolas, movie and book alike. I think some people (us males especially) tend to be jealous of the guy the girls go crazy over. I'm not jealous over him though, it's not Legolas' fault! But seriously, people who say he is "girly" obviously never read the books, because Elves in general are...well...more...graceful. People just twist things around that they don't understand. I too think Bloom did an amazing job at Legolas.

As for his lines...fine, one or two were a bit corny. But in the books, the characters are ALWAYS stating the obvious. It just doesn't sound bad because it isn't on a huge movie screen in a live version. That's just the way it is.

I agree with the overdone scenes though. The oliphant take over...way too much. I could deal with the slide down Helm's Deep, but the oliphant was ridiculous. Fun to watch though.

Anyway, there's my two cents.

Fordim, I'm glad to say I have outgrown my Leggy bopper days! >.> <.<

As for the so-called "girlyness" of elves, I will be an egoist and point those who are interested in rabbit trails to this: Lament for the Elves

But, also, I think the main hatred of Legolas goes to problem of the compatableness of LotR to film. Let's face it, Legolas is a cardboard character -- it really shouldn't come as a surprise that he's a flimsy film character, slightly crumpled on film.

You bring up a good point. What extremely bothers me is that people not only make fun of movie-Legolas, but also of book-Legolas. The two don't really have that much in common - since the writers cut out almost every intelligent sentence Tolkien lets Legolas say in the book. I don't think of book-Legolas as a cardboard character.
If people want to make fun about movie-Legolas, I'm fine. When they make fun of the character in general, I'm a little, well, not upset, but I don't like it - I guess mainly because they do it far too much.

We have to admit that PJ has financial motive - not too ulterior, as a matter of fact. Someone has to rake in all the girls, and ruggedly handsome Aragorn is too noble for the job. Yeah, like morm said. Heartthrob.

He's too perfect. No one in a film can be that perfect.

PJ & Co. has to make modern-day people who would rather sit in the dark watching a film munching popcorn than read a book understand that the book says that an Elf is so-and-so. There can't be a narrator saying "an Elf is so-and-so" verbatim from the book, so PJ & Co. has to translate it to a language that the modern-day people can understand. If the book says that an Elf is tireless and graceful and all that stuff about being a warrior, they have to show it. Turn him into a skaterboi and the stuntman of your dreams.

I wonder how you will react if I tell you that it all boils down to Bloom's fault that I'm even posting this, here, right now.

Hmmm.....Despite being generally impressed by the films, I got cross about quite a lot of things. Theoden's complete change of character...Eowyn's lack of froideur...Frodo's drippiness...Gimli as the fourth Stooge....all things considered, the fact that Legolas was pretty damn hot was fairly low on the list of annoying things as far as this particular long-time Tolkien fan was concerned.

I wonder who will play the elves in The Hobbit Movie. I really hope it's not a ''handsome'' actor, because it just brings the spirit of Tolkien down. People will only go to the movie because people will say: '' Have you already seen that Elf in The Hobbit? He is SO hot, you got to watch it!''
Tolkien can't be forgotten...

Ok, my two cents:
1) Yes, I think that casting the character as a teen heartthrob or action hero detracted from the book's Legolas, and even really from the quality and depth of the character in the movie.

2) However, this is not necessarily an evil. If sacrificing some aspect of a character will draw more people into ME, then it is not a total loss. I had never read any Tolkien before the movies came out. I mostly went to see them because Legolas looked hot and there was sword fighting (I'll claim the young and stupid defense). But this introduced me to ME and Tolkien's masterpieces, and now I can't imagine life without them.

Besides, would we have quite so much fun picking the movies apart if PJ had been completely faithful to the book?

No; but we would have greater enjoyment in watching them. :p

Legolas? He was alright. Remember that he is a minor character and so his depiction doesn't have to be criticised too much.

Fordim to add to your list there:

FOTR:

'Something draws near. I can feel it!'

TTT:

'They run as if the very whips of their masters were behind them.'

'He was twitching!' (but I admit worse is what Gimli says afterwards).

ROTK:

(during the infamous drinking scene)...'I feel something. I slight tingle in my fingers. I think it's affecting me.'

'The stars are veiled. Something stirs in the East. A sleepless malice. The eye of the enemy is moving. He is here!'

'The horses are restless, and the Men are quiet.'

Reading the quotes, I'm starting to wonder if William Shatner, of Captain Kirk fame, was the dialogue ghost-writer. ;)

I'm too old to be concerned about 'fan-girls', and I have three of my own, so my dislike for the PJ Legolas character is not from jealousy. It's just another character on a list that weren't used to their maximal effect. PJ could have done more with Legolas, but as the movies progressed, decided that it was easier on the audiences' brains to expect 'one thing' from the elf prince. See Legolas = over-the-top stunt. Make that two things - See Legolas = straight man for Gimli to play off of.

I like Legolas when he's in the boat in FotR listening to Gimli recount getting a gift from Galadriel. Also, though the elf's fighting is fine, again, by the time we reach RotK, there's nothing much more this character does.

Mullet tales
 

Well, Shatner has won a few Emmys lately. Does that mean there is hope for Bloom?

Hmm. Hmm. Are you sure about that? Not even the tiniest bit? Maybe your age makes you wish you had hair like him and not the receding variety which fatherhood usually brings?

There used to be guys on BD who thought Legobloom inspired everyone to become hairdressers. Yes.

If only every actor could have a career so 'legendary.'


Hah! I've anticipated your question ;). Look at the attached picture of my 'fangirls.' Note the one that is riding on her father's shoulders as he walks uphill carrying her sister. Note how said child uses dad's hair as both a way to maintain her perch and a way to guide said dad. Note hair...

No matter how much they tug, and how many times a day I pull some out, still, it remains (note that, in exchange for non-receding hair I had to give up short-term memory, optimism and congeniality).

And exactly what is a "fan girl?" I assume that we're talking about admirers of the fairer gender of a specific age group? Truly, I am too old and tired to care about the hysteria of those that could be my children. My fangirls greet me like a Hollywood star when I return from work, and also scream when I tell them that cookies are not on the breakfast menu, and so I don't think that Orlando has anything on me there. I do concede that I cannot surf, and I'm at the age where skateboarding is starting to scare me. And, extrapolating, I think that hopping off an oliphaunt would kill my back.

...

What was the question again? ;)


Huh?

*grumbles* These are elf-like quotes, thanks much.

Really, would you all have liked him better if he had had the quotes from the book?

FOTR:

'Well, I have not brought the Sun. She is walking in the blue fields of the South.'

'A plague on the Dwarves and their stiff necks!'

I'm not going to search for any others...I've not read the books in a long time and don't remember Legolas' quotes readily.

He made a good elf, I think...except for a few of his stunts, but not even many of those were ridiculous. Alright, yes, some of his lines were laughable, but that's not his fault...and it's not even for his lines that he's made fun of so often.

-- Folwren

a definite YES! :D

I'd give a little finger if he said "Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us, but they are gone." or "It is old, very old. So old that almost I feel young again, as I have not felt since I journeyed with you children." or only "Do not spoil the wonder with haste."

Well, maybe a fingernail.

Well, yes, of course his lines in the book are better, but there are laughable lines in the book as well, if put on screen. It was a question that was almost sarcasm but not quite.

-- Folwren

I know you meant your question ironic. The lines are laughable indeed - but only if put out of context. If said in the same context as in the book, they would fit as perfectly on screen as on paper. I mean, even the two quotes you gave ironically are from two of the most funny scenes of the whole LotR.

Pre-cise-ly! It's that bald patch on the top, then. A braid to pull the sides up to cover it.


I keep forgetting that you New Order Mods probably don't know the heyday of REB, the infamous rpg Return of the Entish Bow and Revenge of the Entish Bow. It's probably a good thing many fangirls didn't read it, as what was done to Movie Legolas might have turned them into death-threatening maenads. We would have had letters from The Society for the Prevention of Cruel Stereotypes Towards Hair Stylists as well.

Folwren, I think movie Elrond also came in for his share of jibes. Perhaps PJ had difficulty integrating Tolkien's concept of male elf with his action man perspective?

Yes, I know. I loved both those parts! Have you ever read the part of Caradras (sp) as is written in the book The Treason of Isengard? It's absolutely hilarious!!! Gandalf is SO grumpy and Legolas is so funny!

Well, I haven't heard as many. I think Elrond was pretty cool, too...besides the fact that he was so grumpy and kept trying to talk Arwen into breakingher promise.

-- Folwren

Hmm...shouldn't we be adding Haldir and Celeborn to the list? And Haldir's company of androgynous Elves in film FotR?

That is a wonderful line, one of my personal favourites, but can you imagine Peter Jackson, with his rather "hasty" personality, embracing that philosophy in today's society of instant gratification?! I think he did not have a fundamental understanding of the Elves and if you don't grasp something yourself, you can't make others understand it.

That is true. I had not considered that. Do you suppose that if he had had some understanding of the elves he could have, without making the movie longer, made the elves more acceptable to the audience? That is...portray so that even the non-LotR readers would understand what they were? (Other than the perfect appearance character who says very little....)

Still, I've met some people who don't think he was badly done. For instance, one boy I know, he's 12, I think, has read the book and seen the movies and he says that Legolas is his favorite character in both the books and movies. Now, you can't say that he only likes him because he looks good, because this particular boy is part of a family who's all for very masculine boys and men and despises whimpy males, and probably doesn't care two cents about how they look.

So, to some people, maybe he was portrayed correctly....

-- Folwren

To elaborate more on this point, can you have an "ent like" personality/philosophy when filming a movie? No, you can't.

There is only so much money.

There is only so much time to film the story. Deadlines are dreadful things (or so I'm told, I haven't really experienced them yet).

And you have to catch the audiences attention. Some people were complaining that the theatrical release was "too long." The Entertainment business is about pleasing people so that they will dish out money and buy your product. You have to make a profit in the business...so you have to make your product appealing to everyone -- not just the nerds but the fan girls and the people who want a few hours entertainment, etc.

as I've said -- translating a book to a movie doesn't work. There are bookish elements and there are movie elements and the elves, I think, are decidedly bookish.

Edit:

On a completely different note:

Should we not have beautiful music or beautiful scenery or beautiful cinema so that people won't watch the movie for its aesthetic qualities?

No. Of course not.

We should be able to appreciate beauty in all it's shapes, including hot males.

Why should the movie director or whoever chooses the casting not choose a "hot" person to play an elf (who are beautiful people, by the way) because of what a few immature girls will say?

Ah, another sign of age, ma'am, is the gradual loss of acuity. One might take a closer look at said picture to note that, just like on Orlando's bean, there is no recession there, whether sides or top. If you're looking for Amon Rûdh, you have a better chance with a map. ;) And, speaking of acuity, I would also note that as one gets older, mental acuity too feels the effects of time (read my posts if you're not sure). Maybe this is why, in the movie, Elrond drones on and on about the Battle of the Last Alliance and what that 'man' Isildur didn't do, so many years hence - few know now what he's even talking about. Legolas, in contrast, keeps his monologuing to a sentence or two. That being said...


Clear as mud. ;)


Can't say that I agree. The elves could have been portrayed better. Legolas became a one-note assassin, and the elves at Helm's Deep were just cannon fodder. Lothlorien was too brief and too dark. We could have learned more about the elves via Legolas or Arwen as (1) we got to know these characters through the 12+ hours of the movie, and (2) PJ could have, using Gimli and Aragorn respectively, shown us why the elves were different. There were scenes that could have been cut to make time for an elf mini-micro-documentary. Just a few moments, now and then, to show how Legolas or Arwen viewed this Middle Earth.

Don't hate them because they are beautiful...

I hadn't meant to imply that, because I do love the elves both book and movie (gasp) form.

And in the book he was....what? Cardboard? That guy over there who's hair colour is in question? I've read the book many times, I don't feel aquainted with Legolas at all, except as one of the nine.

His stunts in the movie were over the top, yet I hardly think that makes him deserving of the title assasin. Legolas killed people in the book too and he did it well.

I always thought this was harkening back to the fact that the time of the elves was over as they left into the west...

Brief? The Fellowship didn't do anything in Lothlorien besides rest and the mirror scene with Frodo which I am still iffy about how it was portrayed in the movie. But, you must admit, resting and regaining strength is hardly movie material. In movie form, it's a snore fest.

Much as I love the elves, the story is of Frodo and the Ring and the other nine are not about them. In an already complicated story with multitudes of characters, I don't think it would have...worked...to do what you suggest...though I am wondering if you could provide an example of what you mean?

Folwren, personally I think anything is better than 'They run as if the very whips of their masters were behind them.'

I think Tolkien implies a bit of a campy/corny attitude, yet it is humorous...or at least gets a chuckle out of me. For instance 'A plague on the dwaves and their stiff necks!' is just so campy it's funny. Kind of like when Frodo responds to Gildor's little poke:
Or even better, reminds me of the 60's Batman episodes and 'Biff!' 'Pow!' 'Kur-plowee' popped up on the TV in bright colors. Just that kind of humour which I get a chuckle at.

I admit, it's not really Orlando's fault that he's just given bad and Mr. Obvious lines...and I really don't see how he runs like a girl? However, his lines are just the bad cheese, not the good cheese.

I love legolas's super growing power as seen in rotk on a horse eowyn barely clears its ankles yet leeglas is up to the the thing's knee

Ah, you fail to appreciate the Hollywood ethos.
Hot young actress falls in love with Bill Murray or Woody Allen = serious art movie
Hot young actress falls in love with Orlando Bloom = frivolous teen flick

You see, we women can't be trusted watching handsome young male actors, we start getting all silly.
Men are not like this. They don't need, for example, Bette Midler playing Arwen to keep their minds on Higher Things.

edit.... I keep forgetting there is no "irony font" ...

Attend, sir. 'The orcs have run before us, as though the very whips of Sauron were behind them.' That might have pleased you. It comes at least from the book.

And I thought the quote was 'the very whips of their master's will were behind them'? But it makes little difference.

Yes, those quotes get laughs out of me, too...but it's not Legolas' fault.

I don't know of what you speak.

I don't see how he runs like a girl, either. See, I do understand you disliking some of his quotes (even my sister and I laugh at his lack of quotes from the FotR), and I also understand the distain for his outlandish stunt tricks, but it's the jokes about his looks and his running and stuff like that that I don't understand...hence the forming of this thread.

Now, that is funny. I'd never even noticed, but then I've only seen the RotK 3 or 4 times, at most.

-- Folwren

It seems to me that as the movies progressed that Legolas became less elf prince and more 'straight man' to Gimli. That and he, on most occasions, killed things with a bow. He provides information when only he, Aragorn and Gimli are on the screen as we might believe more easily that he would 'know' things unlike the buffoon Gimli. The book Legolas, to me, was more than that. He makes the comment somewhere regarding 'traveling with you children,' meaning that he is much older than he seems. He also does not sleep as we humans, and can dream while he runs. Later in the books we learn of Legolas's love for the sea.


Memorable Legolas movie scenes: When, in Moria when we're on the 'stairs' of Khazad-dum, we follow one of the elf's arrows right into the head of an orc. In TTT he slides down the stairs on a shield and also jumps up on a horse in a most interesting fashion. In RotK Legolas kills an oliphaunt single-handedly. I have to really think to produce more scenes easily (and that's hard this time of the day ;) ).


The extended version is a bit better, but my wife and I (she never read the books) were somewhat confused when we saw Lothlorien. It looked too otherworldly, and when the Fellowship walk up the stairs on the tree in the dark, I wasn't sure what I was to 'see and think.' When I think elves, I think more 'green.'


I understand what you mean, but the theatrical version seemed rushed - 'gotta go!' The extended version was better. Could we have seen Galadriel showing how she keeps Sauron at bay? How about the Fellowship walking through the place while elves do whatever they do? Sing, dance, make rope, magic capes, etc?


Whoa there! See, I'm a critic, and that means that I don't possess a single creative cell in my body...I only quibble and quip about what I don't like and how I could have done it better (without ever offering any positive suggestions or being able to produce any tangible results) ;). Anyway, in the much maligned drinking scene in TTT, we could have had Legolas remark, "A drinking game? With beer? Like I haven't played one of those before. [rolls eyes, then with a grin] I'll leave you children to it...there wouldn't be any wine, would there?" That's surely not Oscar material, but is there a way that we could show that Legolas isn't only a killer and more sensitive to the world ('evil approaches') but also thousands of years old and in possession of a personality?

Likewise, I would have liked to have seen an overt display of Gimli's strength, just to demonstrate that he's not a bearded armor-wearing axe-wielding hobbit. In the warg scene, we see that Gimli is 'tough-stuff' as he is not crushed by the weight of two wargs and one smelly orc, but I would have liked to have seen something more clear.