concerning men
 

I have mastered the history of the elves...however I am unclear a tad bit on men..so..when the awakening of men happened..how many were there? Not all men are descendent from the Edain right? What about the Wose?

The woses or Druedain, were counted in the Edain. We don't actually know how many men awoke, but they awoke in Hildorien, in the east of M-E. As for when they awoke, originally, Tolkien said that they awoke when the Sun first rose, but later he began to veer away from that theory and put the awakening of men further back, to the march of the Eldar perhaps. The Edain can be classified as only those who hlepd the Elves, so the Beorians, Hadorians and the Halethians and I think the Druedain.

[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

The Rohirrim aren't descended for the Edain. Neither are any of the men in The Hobbit (which the Rohirrim are descended from). The men of Harad etc. also aren't descended from the Edain.

In LotR pretty much everyone that isn't Aragorn of from Gondor (except the Woses) isn't part of the Edain. But the Woses in LotR aren't part of the group that went to Beleriand (and thence Numenor), so maybe that aren't part of the Edain.

[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]

You are correct JenFramp: not every man was descended from the Edain, and there are many divisions:

Drúedain
Drughu
Dúnedain
Easterlings
Kings of Men
Men of Darkness
Men of Middle-earth
Men of Númenor
Men of Old
Men of the West
Men of Westernesse
Mighty of the West
Northmen
Númenóreans
Oghor-hai
Púkel-men
Wild Men
Wild Men of the Woods
Woses

As for Woses:It is a Mannish name for the Drúedain. A name among the Rohirrim for the shy, secretive people known in Elvish as the Drúedain. Though never populous, the end of the Third Age saw these people reduced to a few populations in the southern parts of Middle-earth, especially in the Drúwaith Iaur and Drúadan Forest of Rohan, where the Rohirrim came into contact with them.

Source:Encyclopedia of Arda

[ February 12, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]

Dude, you just copied that out of the Encyclopedia of Arda... that's lame. If you're going to quote directly from a source use a citation.

hey that's not nice! at least his information is correct and he doesn't make some stupid assumption

But it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about, as his list was very repitious.

Drughu = Woses = Drúedain = Oghor-hai = Wild Men of the Woods (in Rohan)

Dúnedain = Men of Westernesse = Men of the West = Kings of Men = Men of Númenor = Mighty of the West

Men of Darkness = Wild Men were the ancestors of the Easterlings and Southrons

Men of Old were just Númenoreans, exiled.

Púkel-men were just carvings, not living men.

[ February 11, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

...yea..true...

If you do go to UltimateJoe's link you will find much more than just a list , you find more detail of each and how they are all related (like Legolas demonstrated).

A) It's not correct.
B) It's plagiarism.
C) It's lame.
D) He did make an assumption: The list he included is NOT a list of the races of men; it is a list of the various names for the sub-groups of men.

That's the danger of using secondary sources, and serves of a STARK warning why citation is important. If there weren't more educated people here then someone would've accepted that list as fact, and bad info. would have been further disseminated. With a citation investigation is possible.

Of course that does little to speak of how incredibly lame it is to plagiarize. He is trying to sound like he knows what he talks about; essentially BSing us. If he had sourced his material all the problems with it could have simply been attributed to inexperience.

Where is Inkling Elf?

ok ok ok...i said true..he copied it

Dont be so harsh man, so what he got a list from some other site at least he's giveing feed back(all be it, not to great feed back)

I just really HATE plagiarism. I think I provided my reasons already.

Right..plagarism isn't a good thing. But this topic wasn't for plagarism..it was for information on the drunedain

[ February 12, 2003: Message edited by: JenFramp ]

Let it go...

It's alright, I should've added a citation anyway. But, please know that I didn't mean to copy and take for my own. (I guess you know that already)

But thankyou to JenFramp and the witch king [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] (BTW: I'm a "she" not a "he", but I'm sure you didn't do that deliberately)

UltimateJoe told me he didn't mean to be so harsh on another thread.

I'm cool [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[ February 12, 2003: Message edited by: InklingElf ]

Umm if you look at the bottom of his post you will see something that reads: Source: Encyclopedia of Arda [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

That was added after the fact. PLEASE EVERYONE LET IT GO. I made my point, Inkling Elf AGREED WITH ME, and the changes were made. That is all.

(Sorry about the gender confusion)

so if you guys would be so kind as to continue the discussion..are the men of Rohan descended from Edain?

They're descended from the men that moved west after the first fall of men in Hildorien.

The term "Edain" is usually reserved for the three houses of men who fought with the Valar in the War of Wrath. (Plus the druedain I guess.)

[ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: Ultimatejoe ]

so who exactly are the men of hildorian?

That is where the first men awoke, in the central regions of Arda east of middle earth.

The men of Rohan are descendants of Marachian tribes who never went to Beleriand. (Marachian tribes are pre-Hadorians)