Zaentz countersues the Estate
Hello everyone,
I imagine some of you heard late last year that the Estate was involved in legal action against Warner Bros. and Saul Zaentz Co. regarding the production of The Lord of the Rings-themed digital products, with the particular sore point apparently being gambling machines. Well apparently Zaentz et al have decided to respond in kind, issuing a counterclaim of their own: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/...slot-machines/ http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/24963.html Now normally I'd consider this to be part of the regular back-and-forth that might happen in these kinds of situations. What's particularly egregious about it, however, is this assertion from Zaentz Co. (quoted from the ICv2 article): Quote:
Never have I seen the horrible corporate notion of "We made Tolkien better and are owed for it" made more apparent. I am reminded somehow of a similar claim which was also of dubious validity: "I am the Elder King: Melkor, first and mightiest of all the Valar, who was before the world, and made it. The shadow of my purpose lies upon Arda, and all that is in it bends slowly and surely to my will." So my question is this (for those who might be knowledgeable in such lore): is a claim of "four decades" remotely justifiable? |
Hmmm interesting thought... I think it could be argued that the maintained interest is due to the efforts of the movie industry Indeed most of these machines depict the actors of the motion pictures and not fan art lifted from the book...
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Zaentz produced the baski films in 78 I think that's where they get the forty years
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This is after all Saul Zaentz we're talking about- underhanded and sleazy even by Hollywood's non-standards.
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Frankly I think they'll do pretty well considering the dominance over culture Television and film have had over the past 50-60 years. I don't think it's too hard a sell to say the films are more popular than the book. Like I said I don't agree, but they only need to get 12 couch potatoes on a jury to agree... |
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I wish I could say I agreed with you.... But people don't buy toys for books...
I'm reminded of that scene in Spaceballs, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNZove4OTtI |
I don't think that's the point.
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What I'm saying is, it certainly seems that Zaentz Co did little that would have contributed to the "fame and goodwill" of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit "brand" prior to the Jackson films- yes, even as a purely commercial property.
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And again- as for the general contention that film/TV fandom comes first- well, there is a reason Hollywood does so darned much of this book-to-film stuff, Morsul. As I said, a book without a significant existing audience and/or reputation rarely makes it to the screen in the first place.
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If I needed another factor to make me shy away from the movies, and the cynically crass marketing gimmickry that follows them like flies to a dunghill, I now have it.
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I think we're losing sight that the lawsuit isn't about the claim "we're the reason the Lord of the Rings is a popular brand over the past 4 decades."
Zaent Co.'s countersuit is they are not in breach of contract by putting LOTR and Hobbit characters on gambling machines, and the Estate already agreed to allow this type of merchandising. The "over 4 decades" seems like one of those ridiculous, blustery statements you get from spokespersons and lawyers. |
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I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm explaining the defense Zainst is putting together. I again never said they were correct in their assertions. |
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The only thing they might actually be responsible for is unintelligible anime . |
What I'm saying is, it certainly seems that Zaentz Co did little that would have contributed to the "fame and goodwill" of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit "brand" prior to the Jackson filmsOr after, either: all Zaentz did was accept a check from the Weinstein brothers for the privilege of making the movies (which the Ws subsequently sold along to New Line in exchange for a cut, ultimately making themselves a pile). ZaentzCo contributed pretty much zip-point-zilch, not even Miramax' sunk pre-production costs. The notion that the Estate and the Tolkien name somehow benefited from "good will" generated by bobbleheads and Burger King cups is beyond risible. |
Seriously? :rolleyes: Can't they live a few months without suing each other? :rolleyes:
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The reason I think it'll be hard to beat isn't because its a good defense or even remotely true, however we live in a time where books tend to be pushed aside for cinema and television I sadly think it isn't a far stretch to convince 12 couch potatoes to side with the film company. |
Hard to beat?
Since Zaentz has now put "the fame and good will developed in these marks, products, goods, and services" in factual contention, it hangs a curveball out over the plate for the TE's lawyers to bring on a whole parade of tacky, vulgar, tasteless crap ZaentzCo has willingly licensed over the years (and contrast it with the licensing proposals Christopher has rejected for being tacky, vulgar and tasteless.) |
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There are Bronte and Austen dolls, based on the books and not the movies. And to name just some of the societies--the Tolkien Society (tee shirts and mugs if you please), Bronte Society (mugs, calendars, cards, ties--yes, that actually are printed with "BS" on them), Austen Society (mugs, jewellery, calendars, cards, thimbles, chocolates), Browning Society, Baker Street Irregulars (all kinds of Sherlockiana), The Dickens Fellowship (what hath Tiny Tim wrought for our Christmases!), H G Wells Society, Lewis Carroll Society of North America, The Ghost Story Society, Robert Louis Stevenson Club (pubs, bars, games (board and video)* and even a Mr. Hyde doll). etc. etc. etc. Some of these groups produce just journals; others hold annual events with speakers, performances musical and dramatical, walks and talks, costume events. They may not engage with the likes of Burger King to produce stuff, and they may not number in the millions, but most are devoted to their authors and they do represent a kind of literary fandom. EDIT: *To be correct, the RLS Club does not sell these items but rather lists them under the category of "Unclassified Artefacts" in "Derivative Works on RLS" |
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Do cases like this ever reach the jury stage? Aren't they most often negotiated before trial begins?
That's certainly what happened when the Estate sued an author in the US for using Tolkien as an historical character in his novel. It's jockeying for position rather than raising a legitimate trial. |
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Why, William, whatever are you talking about? *takes a sip from his Burger King Gandalf glass* Are you implying that Zaentz-approved merchandise is tacky? *pulls at the snug neck of his Gollum t-shirt, newly removed from packaging* Well, I'd like to debate this more fully, but I have very little time... *looks irritably at his Map-of-Middle-earth wrist watch* ...you see, I am just finishing up lunch... *picks the last of his sandwich off his Legolas-embossed dinner plate* ...and I must return to work. *pulls his Lord of the Rings key chain out of his pocket* I will continue this discussion... *Glares at his "The Two Towers: Extended Edition" calendar* ...Thursday next. |
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(And even on those terms, it's not as if Zaentz actually made the films...) |
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That may not be how the system is Supposed to work but as with anything on paper its perfect then once people arew involved it comes apart. I'd like to point out I don't have much faith in juries... |
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The gambling machines could go either way. The Tolkien Estate is trying to draw the line that gambling machines should not be allowed because it's merchandise that damages Tolkien and thus violates contractual agreements. Zaentz seems to believe since the copyright doesn't specifically exclude gambling machines and therefor it's fair game to continue slapping Tolkien characters and the LOTR brand on anything and everything. I wish it was as simple as stopping the trash and junk the Zaentz co. licenses and pushes out to sell, but unfortunately passion and justice tends to give way to procedure and legal jargon. Both sides surely have a team of expensive and talented lawyers at their disposal. I would guess the major decision is going to be over the gambling machines. But who can tell how that will turn out when the Estate wants to block the 'brand' from going onto the machines, and Zaentz is saying "well contractually it doesn't exclude gambling machines, therefor we should just be allowed to sell it." If there was already a separate agreement over permissable video games in '96, then I don't see what the TE could do about that part of the lawsuit. |
Hi all, this is my first post here. This particular topic interests me.
There's another layer to this lawsuit that I think you should all be aware of. There's this total conversion mod for Skyrim that remakes Middle Earth in a map nine times the size of Skyrim's map. It's a really ambitious non-profit fan project. Magic will be largely restricted to be more lore friendly. Spears will be implemented to the arsenal of weapons. There will be enhanced mounted combat. http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middl...pons1#imagebox Merp will also have its own original music and voice too. Here's a track. http://www.moddb.com/mods/merp-middl...und-3#imagebox There will be three "modes" to play. A Ringbearer quest-line, where you play as Frodo and go through his journey. There will be a dynamic timeline where events in the world are triggered by the dates they occur in the books. Best hurry to Mt. Doom before the Battle at the Black Gate is over. There's also a White Council "mode", where you run errands and such for the White Council and a free roam "mode" similar to Skyrim. Each mode will have a ton of quests to complete. It would difficult to complete them in the Ringbearer mode and White Council mode because you'd have other duties to attend to and little time. There's also supposed to be a realism mode, where the player has to worry about food and water. Viewing the map is restricted and combat is much more unforgiving in this mode. In July Warner Brothers sent the project a cease and desist letter. The modding team tried negotiating with them, even offering to severely limit the mod. WB didn't care. They wanted Merp gone, claiming that Merp would cannibalize the market. A multibillion dollar company feeling threatened by a non-profit fan mod. The mod team got a lawyer and started a petition to revoke the cease and desist. The petition currently has over 28,000 signers. Maybe not much for WB, but nonetheless the team persevered. In late November, The Tolkien Estate sued Zaentz and the their sub licensee Warner Brothers. In addition to the slot machines, Warner Brothers never had the legal rights to "non-tangible digital media". Entities such as Merp were beyond their jurisdiction, rendering their Cease and Desist void. The Tolkien Estate had inadvertently saved Merp. Now however, Zaentz is counter suing the Estate, threatening to throw Merp back under the rule of Warner Brothers and undo the Estate's actions. This conflict between these two juggernauts does, in a way, decide the fate of fan projects like Merp. |
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That being said, and judging from the images I've seen, doesn't the mod largely use designs from the films? Their summary says: "We use the films for inspiration, but base our visual design mainly on the descriptions in the books and the works of Ted Nasmith and John Howe." but judging by the Rohan buildings, Treebeard etc it's still largely reminiscent of the films. I can see why it might be treading on a few toes in that regard. |
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http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/09/06/mi...se-and-desist/ I think WB felt threatened by the project and took legal action against it using whatever reasons they could conjure up no matter how flimsy. A private release would have allayed their complaint of Merp's effect on the market. Warner Brothers didn't care. In any case, the movies only covered a limited portion of Middle Earth; Merp would be showing all of it. Many locations would be designed by the team. Based on Tolkien, of course, but the films couldn't really be a source of inspiration for Fornost, or Dol Amroth or a variety of other places. There might be some similarities between Merp and the films in the design of the "iconic" locations, but didn't Alan Lee work on the trilogy too? |
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Frankly I despair of this 'Melkorism' among corporations, destroying things simply because they themselves did not create them and can't profit from them: "all gold (in Middle-earth) seems to have had a specially 'evil' trend"... (Morgoth's Ring) |
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