Was the Balrog drawn by the ring?
I am wondering why (apart from plot convenience) the Balrog showed up to hunt the fellowship down. We know that it didn't harm Gandalf or Aragorn on their earlier visits to Moria. We also know that Balin and his companions could live and labour in Moria for a few years without getting attacked by it, which is quiet odd if you think of the Balrog as a watchdog guarding his home. If I'm remembering correctly there isn't even a hint (e.g. in the book of Mazarbul) that the Balrog was involved in the final attack on the dwarves at all. Just drums in the deep. So the Balrog doesn't seem to be the most active fellow. At least not in the last decades or so. Was he, like all beings of evil, drawn by the ring? Was this the main reason he appeared?
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I think the Ring was a likely factor in the Balrog's attack on the Fellowship. It appears that all the evil creatures in Moria were drawn to it; the Watcher went for Frodo, the orc in the Chamber threw his spear at Frodo, etc.
It's also a pet theory of mine that the Balrog may have been the "spirit" of Caradhras, hostile to Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Gimli noted that Caradhras had a bad reputation before Sauron had been heard of in Moria, and that would fit with the idea that the Balrog hid there at the end of the breaking of Angband. |
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yes it was probably the Ring, but if you walk past a sleeping tiger its best not to poke it in the nose. I think it was awoken by too much noise. :eek: It could have been attracted to a heady cocktail of Ring, Istari, Elf and Isildurs heir. it could 'smell' them,
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I believe the Balrogs are maia, and therefore would not be influenced by the ring.
Durin's Bane would have most likely been stirred up by the commotion caused by the Fellowship and goblins, and possibly Gandalf's use of magic. |
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The Ring didn't retain any of Sauron's mind or personality, did it? It was just some of his innate power. Was it not more malevolent-by-design and by nature rather than because of its derivation from Sauron? In addition to the Morgoth-element of gold of course. The power of the Ring, despite deriving from Sauron's spirit, seems to be more generic spiritual potency to me. I'm trying to think of an analogy for this but I'm struggling. |
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So let's dismiss the idea that a Maia wouldn't be influenced/tempted. |
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I believe the balrog became furious when he overheard the Fellowship muddled in that stale old debate regarding "wings or no wings". There is just so much a balrog can take.
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Ok, so while we can't agree on whether the ring tempted the Balrog, which I don't think it did, I am fairly sure it knew of its existence and was less of 'drawn to it', but more of 'aware of it and trying to take it to its master'.
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I doubt the balrog would return the Ring to Sauron if he got hold of it. Why should he? Balrogs were not pawns like the Nazgul, they were Maiar. |
Balrogs and Sauron = peers under Morgoth. If the Balrog took the Ring I'd think he'd keep it for himself. I also think the Ring could effect other Maiar, it certainly even had an effect on its maker. This is why the Wise would not try to use it to fight Sauron. It was quite dangerous. I'm not sure the extent of it's influence. Like could it even bring out this nature of dominating in even more powerful spirits such as the Valar? I do not know. Certainly it would not be a danger for them to face Sauron with the Ring because they could overpower him, whereas his peers would be in greater danger trying to take Sauron out with the Ring.
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Yeah, those are some pretty valid points. However, since Sauron shares a similar purpose to Melkor, and the Balrogs sought to serve Melkor, it would be in their best interests to use the ring in some way. I just remembered that the ring is still just a ring.
Revised theory: The Balrog was definitely awoken by the Fellowship's interference and calamity of the goblins, and Gandalf seemed to know that it was coming instantly. It would have gone towards the source of commotion, which was the Fellowship. The Balrog could not have known about the ring and was attacking the Fellowship because they woke him up. Belegorn, I doubt that the ring would have any effect on the Valar, as they are essentially gods. |
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That is a fair point about the Balrog not being awoken by the battles between the dwarves and the goblins, but it did eventually show up. Maybe it was trying to find a way up to them?
On the topic of knowing the ring was there, Maiar like Gandalf and Saruman were not aware if the ring was with them unless they could physically see it. After all, it IS still just a ring. The watcher in the water would be an interesting topic for debate, but it is likely that the Balrog was a more powerful entity, more resistant to the magic of the ring. I doubt the Balrog would have pursued the ring because he would not have seen it. It can have a hold on people, but they do need to be somewhat close to it. Sauron's power wasn't so great that people would always go towards the ring like a magnet. If the Balrog was drawn to the ring, would he have not tried to go past Gandalf, rather than fight him in honourable battle? Or maybe the idea of honourable battle with another Maiar was greater temptation to it. |
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Edit to clarify: It is hard to determine in what way exactly the Balrog got drawn by the ring. But it doesn´t need to be like a force which turns the Balrog into a mindless slave, leaving him with no choice or will in this matter. It could very well be more like a presence of some kind which draws the Balrogs attention and curiosity. Quote:
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Considering how practically everyone needs to see artifacts with their own eyes before determining whether it is the real thing or not, there is little way you could tell if the Ring was real, or even there, without seeing it for yourself. However, it will play with the weaker minds, like the Watcher in the Water. |
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For most other flying things, one could argue that it may be only capable of soaring/gliding (or only has the strength to get up in the air and then has to rely of soaring to stay up, like many birds) and the cave has no thermals to ride. But for a Balrog even that would not make sense. Since they produce fire (and unlike dragons, that fire seems to come from their whole bodies/the weapons they carry; not just their mouths) they'd basically make their OWN thermals.
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I don't get the Balrogs have wings argument. The passage says that it's shadow spread out like wings, in others words covered the expanse to either side, not that actual wings made the shadows. Neither in LotR, or in the Silmarillion have I come across Balrogs with wings, or that they could fly. Flying dragons is what gave Melkor an advantage. If his Balrogs could take to the air I'm sure they'd have used that to their advantage too, pelting the enemy with fiery arrows or some such. Also on the bridge Gandalf said "You cannot pass!" four times, not "You shall not pass." :)
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I personally think 'You cannot pass!' is much more assertive, like Gandalf will not let him pass, rather than Gandalf saying, 'Nah, I don't feel like letting you cross.' |
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He and the orcs had to be aware of each other and through the orcs awareness, Sauron must have been aware of him too. Unlike Smaug, who Sauron wanted to utilize, the Balrog was in Moria with Sauron's servants and yet the Balrog never left Moria. Was Sauron not interested in utilizing the Balrog in the war, or did the Balrog just refuse to participate? Personally I think the Balrog's primary motivation was a desire to be left alone. He may have found being on the losing end of the War of Wrath a scarring experience. He may have slept through Balin's occupation, or perhaps he had no desire to meddle with them and possibly alert the world to his presence. Sauron's orcs returning to destroy the colony may have roused him in some way. Then here comes the Fellowship causing noise and bother. It must have been annoying. |
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Or perhaps the Balrog was the Watcher in the Water? :eek: |
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You said earlier: Quote:
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I can't remember ever seeing such a thing but that doesn't mean someone hasn't done it. Quote:
I agree, it is a little difficult to explain away. |
I don't know about the creature in the water being the Balrog. It had at least 20 tentacles. That does not sound like a Balrog to me, and I do not think the Balrog would attack from a point of weakness. When he fought Gandalf the pool under Moria put out his fires. Although those were extremely cold waters. I think the Balrog must have been very cautious after his peers were manhandled in the War of Wrath. I have no idea why he suddenly decided to show himself. Being a resident of Thangorodrim I do not think Dwarves working with metals would bother him much. Melkor always had the smithies going, beating the metals, creating machines, et cetera. Perhaps it was the Gandlaf/Ring combo, but I do not quite think so. Was Gandalf disturbed by the presence of the Balrog? I do not recall. Perhaps if his hair was on end, maybe the Balrog himself felt it, not quite sure why his skin was tingling. I'd think he'd want to stay put if he were still fearing for his life, although they were fighters so maybe he had screwed up his courage after 2 Ages of stealth.
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Part of the fissiparous nature of evil was that there were many evil things, but they were not all controlled by the same evil will. |
aside from being aware of the rings power,what other motives vould the balorg have?
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I'd assume he meant what other motives could the Balrog have for showing himself.
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Well, there's the obvious “I want those loud and annoying intruders out of my home“. As I discussed before this motive seems plausible at first but it raises many questions regarding it's behaviour at the time of Balin's colony. Then there's the possibility that Durin's Bane noticed, and was provoked by, Gandalf's presence which didn't happend the first time Gandalf went through Moria. Theoretically speaking, the Balrog may have been in the service of Sauron and alarmed by him about a certain party which may try to travel through it's realm. I guess those are the most likely motives for the Balrog to confront the fellowship, aside from the discussed “Ring“-explanation.
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If the Balrog had an interest in helping Sauron, one can see better tasks for it, such as leading an assault on Rivendell or Lórien. |
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