separation of Shadowfax and Gandalf
 

Just a little thought... not a very hot topic for debate, but I was pondering the parting of the fellowship. In the "white rider" gandalf states At the parting,(havens) shadowfax is present. Which leads me to assume that he also took the ship to valinor with gandalf, because it does not state otherwise. That also seems like a topic that Tolkien would have addressed if it had happened. Also, what (if any) is the signifigance of animals in Valinor? I am sure that they are present, but i have never really covered any material that gives clear understanding. Also, I wonder what the lifespan was for horses, especially the mearas Any help?

~Namarie~

I believe I can address each of those questions for you. Starting from the last.

- The life of a mearas was in fact as long as that of a human. Each horse tended to accompany its King until its death.
- In Valinor, I believe, all animals (that have been, are, and are yet to be in the world) are to be found; and as the land is Undying, it is probable that there they are immortal. It is possible that I've got this idea from the Lost Tales or something, but I've got a feeling that it's from the Silm.

Did Shadowfax go with Gandalf to the West? It is probable, if that line of Gandalf's was true. As I should think it was; Shadowfax was to be the last of the mearas's line, a thing that would be explained by his passing into the West.
Perhaps that's where he belonged.
Sort of on loan to Middle-Earth, for a while, they may have been.

Gwaihir, the reason Aman was called the Undying Lands was because of the people that lived there, not because of any special properties that the land itself possessed. In Unfinished Tales, the Elves told the King of Numenor that living in the Undying Lands did not confer immortality, rather, it was the people themselves who were immortal.

Therefore, Shadowfax wouldn't have immediately become "immortal" just by living in the Undying Lands.

I agree Gwaihir. Although Finwe points out that the undying lands are named for the ones who live there, I believe that it is open for debate since it is not really set in stone. I believe that it was possible for the mearas to remain immortal in Valinor. This seems to be the logical reason for why I would believe that they are immortal in the undying lands. It seems like valinor is kind of symbolic for *noahs arc* in my OPINION. (no proof) I think that it is very possible that all animals (as Gwaihir stated) can be found in Valinor, and I do not believe that the Valar would let such a race die out completely.

Ah, I see.


So perhaps the Mearas had "cousins" or "kin" living in Aman, who were immortal. But then again, even if they weren't immortal, they still wouldn't die out completely. A species dies out completely if no more births occur, and the Mearas probably breed like regular horses (don't make me get into the graphic details! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img])

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] yes well, i did consider that aspect. However, if gandalf wishes for them to never part again in this world...(although valinor is not part of the rest of middle earth) then that makes me assume that once shadowfax reaches valinor, he will not die. (hence the never parting concept [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] ) Anyway, I am probably starting to stretch the validity of this subject, so i will graciously step down and save you the agony. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

~Namarie~

Ah well, who knows. Its fiction; I think that's about all we can say. =)

I believe that by this quote, Gandalf means that until they have left 'Middle-Earth' they should not be parted again. It does not mean that they would never be parted. Gandalf is saying (heroically as he does not really know if it will be true) that they will win through and depart ME victorious.

There you have it. Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak.