Here's another hard one...
 

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In Return of the King, the Orc Snaga was talking about Sam after they had captured Frodo. &quot;I tell you, there's another one around. It's one of the bloody-handed Elves, or one of those tarks.&quot; he says. What is a tark?

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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

Heh.... I asked this one myself once...

A tark is a 'Man of Gondor' and stems from tarkil which meant 'of Numenorean decent'...

So, in this instance, a tark was one of those pesky soldier boys from Minas Tirith.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

It says that at the bottom of the page. Beside Tark, there is an Asterisk, then at the bottom it shows the definition.

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

Gwaihir, it looks like yours might be different, but I have several editions of the LotR and none have tark asterixed (sp?)... It is explained in the Appendices.

Which edition do you have?

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> My edition...

Im not sure what it is, but it's the old box set with the gold paper thing and with all them pics all over it. Hold on...it's the old Ballintine set. Thanx about the tark deal... i always wondered if they were Smeagol-types. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

Silly me. Of course. My edition is published by Harper Collins.

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

perhaps a proper defining of the lotr canon is in order here<img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

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<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Here's another hard one...

Heh .... if you remember the Thorongil problem I was discussing a while back, it might not be a bad idea to figure out which LotR is JRRT and which has CRRT addition/ammendations.

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

I know that crrt completed some of his father's stories but I am not sure which stories he completed except I believe Unfinished Tales and another book. His Father did all the LOTR, Hobbit, Silmarillian (sp), Farmer Ham and some others. [img]smilies/redface.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

whoa Filanndriel, great piece of poking among dusty oldies you performed here [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] And BW using {sp}, hehe.

OK, Christopher published Silmarillion, which was compiled of his father's stories , but selected and edited those according to his (C's) own wisdom. Later he did discover and publish a lot of other notes of JRRT's, which in many places contradict what is said in Silmarillion compilation (aka Silm77, as it was published in 1977). The latter is known as History of Middle Earth Series, aka HoME, and there are XII volumes of it already published (XIII on the way AFAIK, but it will not include any stories, but indexing only)

PS, Ham is not the farmer, it's a village which farmer Giles was from.

PPS You can view the whole list of Tolkien's books
HERE

and PPPS Welcome to the Downs [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

I did some research on the term Tarks and i had come to conclusion which still i need to question about. It is evident that in the Western dialect there were many words taken from Elvish that were twisted in Orkish use. One of those was the Quenya word 'tarkil', meaning the Dunedain. In the Orc usage this became Tark, a word of contempt for the men of Gondor.
Well i worded it a bit different to the Barrow Wight (which i hope nobody takes any offence of) but i knew a bit of background of the orkish language so i just had to post.