Original elves still left
How many of the elves who awoke in the east of wichever subgroup do you reckon was still in Middle Earth at the end of the third age?
I cant imagine all of them being dead...? |
I would imagine there would be some Sindar elves left in Middle Earth. Probably not many, but I don't think all of them sailed to the Undying Lands.
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Most of the first elves alive must be in Valinor...if there was a list of all the 'first' elves it might be easy to say who is alive and where. |
(Edit: As I seem to have totally misinterpreted this thread in this post, cosider it. :rolleyes [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
[ August 13, 2003: Message edited by: Gwaihir the Windlord ] |
Hey all I'm back and going, anyway on elves. I am totally unsure of this since it was a while since the library started sending em letters about having to return HoME but if my memory does not fail me there were around fifty elves that awoke. This means that the time between their journey to Valinor and the original awakening allowing the growth of a sizeable population. The eldest, pater patratus, awoke a few hours before the others together with their spouses in some defined order I cannot remember either, would someone that has got their hands on a HoME edition check that up, please?
Måns |
The legend of the awakening says that only 144 elves awoke at Cuiviénen. Three of them, Imin, Tata and Enel, awoke first, whith their wifes, and they awoke the rest of the elves they found spleeping. The people that followed Imin were the origin of the Vanyar; the followers of Tata, of the Noldor, and the peopleo of Enel, of the Teleri.
And their numbers were (including Imin, Tata and Enel): Vanyar: 14 elves Noldor: 56 elves Teleri: 74 elves. |
Amarië--what's the source for that? It sounds cool; I want to read it!
The only original Elf that's actually mentioned as still being alive is Ingwë, a Vanya and High King of all the Elves. |
The tale of the Awakening (Cuivienyarna) can be found as an appendice to Quendi and Eldar in War of the Jewels (HoME 10).
Also, Ingwe was not one of the original Elves who Awoke at Cuivienen (the so-called Unbegotten). He was born there to unnamed parents. |
I only wanted to add that to what Tar-Elenion has said, that this legend is very beautiful, and I highly recommend it. It is worth reading it! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
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actually. i think most of them would be dead. if you think about it, they had a lot of wars with melkor, and thus the original elves would of been slain in his wars against Valinor. it's just how i feel, but there cant of been that many originals, like with the dwarves
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Cirdan was one of the original first born wasnt he?
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Unlikely unless Cirdan was the father or grandfather etc. of Thingol, Olwe and Elmo.
As he is their kin, he is likely some sort of cousin and thus has parents as well. [ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Tar Elenion ] |
Also, do not forget the 'fading' factor. Extremely unlikely any of the 'original' Elves would be left in Middle Earth because of that. If there were any, then only in Valinor, where the 'fading' is supressed.
-Aredhel |
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I was thinking more along the lines of, a projection of the future percentages of skills and inclinations within the elven population.
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Ah, you failed to specify, you see. :p
Well... Quote:
The Vanyar's host was said to be the smallest. That makes sense, but I didn't realise it was that small - 14 out of 144 (note the importance of that number - the Eldar worked in 12s, 12 12s are 144) or 9.7%. We can presume, then, that only a tenth of all the Quendi were Vanyar. Overall, then, 10% of all Elves were Vanyar. 38% were Of Noldorin kind, that is to say, they were either Noldor, or Moriquendi of the same type (and presumably good craftsmen?). 51.% were Teleri or Moriquendi of the same sort. We can't really work anything else out. We have no idea how many Noldorin and Telerin Quendi became Moriquendi, though I'd presume it was a large part of the Telerin and a small part of the Noldorin Quendi. In "Of the Flight of the Noldor" it is said Quote:
All this has been worked out on the presumption that the numbers Tolkien came up with are still relevant. |
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