Anger in the Old Forest!
I reading the Fellowship of the Ring a couple weeks ago when suddenly a question struck me (not literally of course): Why is there so much anger in the The Old Forest? Ever since the hobbits of Buckland can remember there has been great tension between the woods and the living things that dwell on it's borderes. I can never figure out why.
Now I'm not a genious, but I am a thinker. I've come up a hypothesis that the Old Forest is made up of the Entwives, and as it says in the the book, the Entwives left Fangorn because they had an argument with the Ents on whose land is best. The ents liked the untamed forests and natural growing of plants, while the entwives liked everything in neat rows, in a cultivated garden. I think some of the anger from this might have carried over. This also brings up another interesting question for me, was there a reason that Tom Bombadil dwelt so close to the forest, or was it purely by chance and not related at all the "angry forest."? It's a long shot, but I thought it was still worth sharing with ya'll. Can anyone help me out here? Why is the Old Forest angry? |
I would say, the reason is simple as always. Compare to Fangorn (namely huorns). And even Merry says that. The trees don't like intruders. It may have something to do with the fact that the living (walking) beings tend to kill the trees (for wood) and such. And it may be that it is more like a "stereotypical xenophobia" than a conscious choice "let's be aware of these intruders".
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No the trees don't care for people. Remember, once a squirrel could jump from tree to tree all the way from the south of Gondor to what was later called the Shire. The Old Forest and Fangorn are some of the last remnants of this ancient forest, ever decimated by people and their need for timber. So I can see why the trees are a bit edgy around people.
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When I read the first post I knew how I would respond, unfortunately Legate and Mr. Spence used almost the exact same wording as I would have. . .
So I would just like to add that it seems improbable that The Old Forrest should be made by the entwives or that they should dwell there. 1. As Mr. Spence pointed out The Old Forrest and Fangorn used to be 1 2. The Entwives prefered their gardens 3. If the Entwives where to leave their home (the brown lands) for The Old Forrest, then the Ents would probably have detected them. |
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Well, I'm sure there must have been some huorns.
But was Old Man Willow one? that would explain a lot. |
A while back I discussed this sort of thing with some friends and some interesting theories arose. The odd thing that connects Fangorn to the Old Forest, besides the once physical connection, is the attitude of the trees. This raises the question; is this solely caused by age or are there other factors involved? During the discussion, one theory in particular struck me as interesting...
The Entwives were interested in order and, as it were, controlling the plants. I seem to recall Trebeard implying they wanted to, in a sense, bend them to their will. Given the reaction of more sentient lifeforms to similar attempts by Melkor, Sauron and so on, of rebellion and not a little anger, is it possible that the Entwive's 'ordering' of the forest caused at least some of the anger? I would take this further. If the trees see the Entwives as 'things that go on two legs', so to speak, and the 'ordering' of their lives was seen as some sort of oppression, then other creatures who resemble them will encourage similar reactions. We know the Hobbits were fond of gardens, we know they made the hedge and cut back a lot of trees (albeit, when they attacked). If this theory bears some manner of truth, it seems likely to me that, perhaps, the trees felt that the Hobbits may have been continuing the sort of thing the Entwives were doing. We know Sam's cousin (allegedly) saw an Ent-like creature prowling the Shire. Even if this is not an Entwife, it may well be the kind of thing that would re-open the trees' old hatreds, if it had been there since the forests 'split'. Then we have Bombadil; always a spanner in the works. He, again, seems to be one for ordering things, in a way. He can, for whatever reason, control in song the Willow Man, the rain and the Barrow Wight. A controlling force of Bombadil's stature living so close may well be a constant annoyance to the forest (not to mention his songs ;) ), again IF this theory is correct... All the same, this is all speculation. What say you? |
I'm pretty sure that the Old Forest is made up of huorns rather than Entwives. First, Entwives seem too benevolent to me to be waylaying travelers. Second, Entwives don't live in forests, but gardens. Third, would Entwives really be mistaken for trees? They look even less like trees than their male counterparts, and all Onod-kind have humanoid bodies.
Old Man Willow seems to me like a black-hearted huorn, rather than an Entwife, as he is both stationary and masculine. I'm inclined to agree with Rune and skip that the Old Forest trees are probably resentful of the intrusion of the Children of Illuvatar upon their ancient territory, whether it be hobbits or Bree-landers or whoever. |
Bonfire glade
Also remember the trees/huorns/ents of the Old Forest had a specific grudge against the hobbits.
The trees approached the hedge some years before LoTR but were cut down and burnt by the Bucklanders, thus the 'Bonfire glade' a suitable clear patch for hobbit picknicks no doubt, but to 'the trees' a scene of grisly massacre surely! |
That just about does it
Leave it to me to make a mountain out of a simple mole-hill.:rolleyes: Thanks for all the answers, ya'll got this problem solved in no time at all. :)
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This subject does bring up a related topic. Why would
ents and huorns seem to be only endemic to Eriador and Fangorn? Coming from Beleriand it would seem to be no great feat for them to get to Mirkwood via, say, the Ered Mithrain, not even having thereby to contend with rivers such as the Greyflood. Or even getting to the trollshaws, where they could make mincemeat of even the likes of Tom or Bert! |
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Why is Mirkwood not angry?
An excellent question, Tuor of Gondolin. My guess that we don’t hear of Huorns in Mirkwood is because of the evil that has always dwelt within its borders. Dol Guldor for example, I don’t think that you would want dwell in the same place that your enemy does. Eraidor is as far away from evil as you can possibly get, and Fangorn is right next to Orthanc (remember that Saruman was friendly towards trees back then) where they could get immediate protection from Treebeard and Saruman.
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What I meant was that nothing really harmful would happen to the Fangorn because Saruman was friendly towards them, in the beginning, meaning that they could have had a worse neighbor than him; and who would want to burn or hurt a forest that is so close to a wizard. Although the legends about Fangorn would be enough to scare almost anyone away, having a powerful wizard as it's neighbor kind of adds to the danger. |
I think the taint of Sauron and Morgoth probably had a thing to do with it. As the hobbits crossed through the old forest, darkness and shadows were stirring throughout Middle Earth because Sauron had already been active again for some time, and was getting ready to wage war. After all, Mirkwood used to be the Greenwood before Sauron moved in for a period.
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Perhaps the anger in the forest flows out of Old Man Willow to the rest of the trees, as he seems to be the heart of the forest and the book says that the Withywindle valley where Old Man Willow was is "the centre from which all the queerness comes". I could see Old man Willow being the type to keep the trees angry and full of hate.
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So I belive you might be right in saying that Old Man Willow does not want to move. . .why should he? He pretty much controls the forrest so that he can get people let to him and when they arrive he makes them fall a sleep. When you can do that, then why should you move if you have found a nice spot. . .come to think of it, I don't think that trees after they learn to walk is tinking "oh this is brilliant, now I can play football, run the marathorn and hunt down squirrels" I think it is more of a useful tool that they might use, but that they mostly stand still and act. . .well treeish. Anyways, Legate's theory of the development latter leaves us with a question: When does trees gain awareness (or thoughts if you may) |
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I thknk that Old Man Willow, is awakening (or has awakened), but went through more of a mental than physical change. He can move his brances, but they're still branches, not arms as such.
Anyway, I get a sense that because he's so old, his roots have spread throughout most of the forest. Like they've sort of become mixed with the ground, and are entwined (not entwifed;)) with all the other roots of younger trees. It sounds like that to me when treebeard describes it. I don't think he really needs to walk. |
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