Sorry, I'll try to be a bit more active from now on.

Two last-minute bandwagons, two dead unstung innocents.

For lack of any better ideas, right now those who are involved in both of these are looking worst to me. That's Nogrod and the phantom at least, to my recollection.

But honestly, in all the games I've played I've never felt so in the dark (hahaha) on a Day 3.

Really not an easy game to keep track of, this.

These are a few of my favourite enigmas...

1. Phantom's Sam scheme.

The ostensible reason was so we could be sure ifLhuna had been Sam's cure-target. All right. What strikes me about this scheme is that it was more-or-less guaranteed to occupy the village's attention without posing much threat to the Spider(s)– as I said yesterDay, it could not even give us a known innocent. It is possible phantom believed he knew Sam's identity already, and was try to give him a cover under which he could communicate. It is also possible phantlob or phantling sought to draw Sam out.

2. The Bomwaggon
This was not nearly as unreasoned as the Glirdywaggon– however, to echo Lhuna, it's kind of interesting that both Nog and tp show up in both.

3. Fea's vote on phantom
Reasoning: "Love you tons, sweetums." Had previously declared Boro "probably evil" and announced her intention of voting for him.

4. Fea in general
Yes, there's been a lot of banter in this game. She's so far posted only banter. Nobody seems to care, either.

5. Wilwa's insistance on voting Lhuna
And I mean insistance. She gave no real reason, but she wouldn't be dissuaded, either.

On the other hand, we also have–
6. Nog's insistance that Lhuna was a "known innocent"
True, she's probably not a Spiderling (not certain, though). That's not the same thing.

My vote on phantom
An excellently reasoned and altogether impeccable vote. Clearly innocent.:p

Have about 2 minutes then off to work.

Nerwen, I wouldn't say I was insistent. Maybe about not thinking it a good idea to kill phantom, who at the time I was pretty sure to be innocent (now I don't know). I was really just trying to decide who else I could vote for out of those who had votes, and the way Nog seemed to think that Lhuna seems more innocent than anyone else, when to me she doesn't at all, just made her stand out more to me than the other options. So I went with her.

I should hopefully be around for the last hour of the Day.

In case anyone's missed it in the Admin thread– Boro is dropping out.

:(

Now what is this? We have one person leaving the game everyday and the least posts per Day I can remember - and all this after we had a pause in ww for about two months or something?

The law of all good things coming to an end...?

That thought passed my mind... But if it comes to that, we must end with a bang and not with a whimper.

I think it's just that everyone's busy.

Also, you know, we've probably got out of the swing of WW just because of that two-months pause.

It maybe that me and tp have been parties to the lynchings because we have been around at the DL. :)

But I think you should also remember that in this game a tie means that no one is lynched and our only way to get Shelob is to lynch her. Therefore there is more pressure in the end not to spread the votes too much. Especially as the voting has been a bit erratic (people don't talk about their preferences and one never knows how many will not vote any given Day).

I can't speak of any specific reasons on behalf of tp but I can tell you mine (which are actually in the thread already on both Days).

What comes to D1 Glirdan, he was one of the only people I had even a slight reason to vote (that exchange between him and Lottie). I was to be sure a bit more worried about those very careful players who said little or nothing but there was no way in deciding between them. In the end of the Day no one was coming forth with any ideas and the votes were spread between five different people. So when tp and Boro said they could vote for Glirdy it sounded like the best bet. It would both secure someone is lynched (we get a go for Shelob) and I could vote him with good conscience as I had a reason for voting him (even if slight - and as it turned out, wrong).

I was pretty uneasy with Bom quite early on as s/he felt like s/he had orders to go after me (like a spiderling might have had). This game is based on suspecting others, but when you suspect others, you should make even remotely reasonable points - or then say you have a gut feeling. Bom was looking like relatively cognizant of the game and us players (well taught during the Nights) but only gave more or less bogus suspicions. Also her/his last post looked suspicious. So when I found out others were willing to vote her/him too, I must say I wasn't too sad about it. Alas, wrong again, but again in good faith.

Okay, I have voted for an innocent two times in a row. But as we have only one baddie (or possibly two yesterDay), that isn't anything out of what is probable. Looking at the maths, most of us have thus far only voted for innocents... it's that only those which end up lynching someone are verified.

Someone asked about Lhuna as well. I thought our best theory about the first stinged one was Lhuna (not a strong case but the only one I thought could be argued for even slightly). And it seemed most others shared the view. Ergo: the possibility that Sam had tried to use his healing-powers on Lhuna were quite good - so we should not lynch her as she would have been most likely "clean" (unless Shelob took a really cool step and stinged her only on N2).

If we have good reason to believe Sam has tried to heal person X the previous Night, we don't go on lynching that person X, right?

Having a "working hypothesis" of Lhuna being the stinged one of course meant she couldn't be Shelob at the same time. She can of course be Shelob, but thus far I have no special reason to believe that she is (more than of anyone else), but the possibility she was the stinged & healed one being presented I saw better odds for us if she was not lynched. Does that make sense?

I shall likely continue to banter, as that was part of the condition of my employ. Mischief. ("Will you play?" "Can I be insane?")

However in effort to be mildly useful, it only seems fair to tell you not to bother lynching me. Savvy?

Oh, I see. You're definitely not a villain, then?;)

I hate to hear that. Makes me wish I'd voted for him yesterDay after all. It would have helped him out, and we'd still have an innocent Bom.

Nah. Like Nerwen said, it's apparently just been a really busy time for everyone since the start of the year.

More insane than usual? ;)

x/d with Nerwen

You don't need to worry about that from me, Fea. The only people in my worth-lynching list right now are the phantom, Lottie, Nog, and perhaps Shasta.

EDIT: x'd with Nerwen and Zil

I'm taking a bit of a controversial stand here, but at least now we know Bom was innocent. On the other hand, we don't know what Boro is (per rules on dying unlynched), but I suppose he's not Shelob because otherwise what's the point of continuing the game?

Besides, innocents (I'd say we but of course I don't know which side you are) are still up on the numbers game. But not for long, it would seem. We have one Shelob, one spawn, and one stung now, and eight players all in all.

True. If we're lucky he was a spiderling.

Amusing the Moddess? I hear somebody (Fea?) ran a truly sadistic game like that in the days of yore.:eek:

In that case you'd think he'd have particular qualms about deserting Her at this juncture. But then, Sally might do something to compensate Shelob– reassigning the role, or giving her an extra Night-attack, or whatever. So it's possible.

Or if we're unlucky he's the Doctor. I'm inclined to think he's normal, but what do I know.

But sally wouldn't do that... Or would she? I mean it's sadistic enough not to allow anyone to post reveals, false or otherwise. :p I can't help thinking it must feel useless to be the Doctor when the only way your knowledge is discovered is when you're dead - and that after looking at your posts and making the most sense out of it possible. But even then that would just be everyone assuming, not actually knowing. It would give the living more questions than answers.

I need to leave for a while but I will give you my take on people later toDay (Greenie is coming to my place to watch the American Idol :D).

But let me throw a few thoughts to think about meanwhile - and please let's discuss a bit more toDay, please. This is a bit frustrating.


I really don't like saying this once again (and I'm not too happy to trigger the same discussion again), but I think I need to say it anyway. There are so many silent partners here in this game, any open suspicions have been very rare, people are too careful to let their opinions known... Add to that that we have only one (or two) baddies among us, the current state of affairs is plain against our interests as Shelob's best strategy in this kind of an envirovment would be to hunker down and hide among the majority of careful players.

I said that on D1 already and now on D3 the message is even more urgent. Let's play toDay. and I do not mean quantity, but quality, aka. saying what we think about people, of many people, and not narrowing it carefully down to say that you tend to think one person is okay and one might be suspicious-looking but then again maybe not so much... leaving all the others without a mention.

In this vein I actually dare to take on a "phantom-mode" and suggest we all promise toDay to make a list of all people, and promise to name at least two people we suspect - and why we do it.


:eek:
Wait a minute! :eek:

I thought it was more or less undecided which interpretation of the general rules Sally took or do we learn if Sam manages to heal someone, but what really blew me was that we only have 8 players left... Really? *checked, true*

Okay. The Doc can check people and we need to lynch any checked stinged one now (unless the Doc also learns when the stinging has taken place when we could trust on Sam to try to heal someone stinged the Night before). Also Sam has both the ability to block a stinging and to heal someone. As the number of players drop down his chances of success grow.

But the nasty fact is, that if we lynch more innocents and no rangering or healing takes place (and Lhuna's numbers are correct), we'll have toMorrow Shelob + two spiderlings against one stinged and three other innocents. Then lynching an innocent (even the stinged one) toMorrow means we lose.

Oh wait... didn't the number of the baddies need to outnumber the innocents this time? *checked, right they have to* Okay that gives us one more chance, although if a stinged one is not healed the lobber-gang will win.

Uh... Need to go now.

Wasn't last time I checked.

Pretty sure the most sadistic game I ever ran was when I wouldn't tell anybody (alive or dead) what roles people had until the village had killed all but one. But that game wasn't about good versus evil, it was about last man standing. I just failed to explain that to people because it would have ruined the purity of the votes.

The Doctor can't reveal, Nog.

EDIT:X'd with Fea.

That's what I'm afraid of... I think he was either the doctor or then someone playing the doctor to confuse Shelob and make her attack him to be healed by Sam later. Or whatever.

It's harder to see him as a baddie, but he could have been the stinged one who wanted to gain attention by the way he played calling for attention?

Oh, so it was you, Fea.

EDIT:X'd with Nog

Right... Quite a pointless role then? Maybe that's why I didn't come to think about it...

I wouldn't say pointless– he can push to get stung people lynched, and maybe deduce who Shelob is. But it's not like a normal Seer.

And I agree Boro was hinting like mad yesterDay, but who knows what that was really about?

That's what I said. *points up*

So, my 2 biggest suspects toDay:

1. the phantom
Because of the last-minute bandwagons thing. And I can totally see him pull off trying to pull the strings by asking the Sam question, but that's just my personal prejudice. It's also that I still don't get why he attempted to make that survey, unless he was (as someone said) trying to draw the Doctor out.

Now that I think about it, wouldn't a more important question to ask at that time be "If you were Shelob, who would you sting?" Okay, so I am of the opinion that it's better to try hunting for Shelob herself than one of her spawn, but at least it gives us lynch candidates, which would probably be more helpful, instead of non-lynch candidates, which is what the Sam question kind of gave us.

Or I am making sense out of absolutely nothing that has happened in the past couple of Days.

2. Lottie
There's just something about her that makes me feel uneasy. Sure, she drew herself out a bit more when she started going after Zil so heavily, but it's still not enough to make people look at her, like there's still a sense of being careful about it. Okay, I admit this one's more of a gut feel but really, what else do we have to go on?

My minor suspects are Shasta also because he feels stealthy, and Noggie because of the bandwagon thing.

EDIT: x'd with Nerwen

Also, I am wary of Zil because for some reason I'm starting to trust him, and I don't trust myself to trust people. :eek:

I kept thinking about the role of the Doc as I walked home and yeah, I think I got it now. You're right Nerwen, he can "push". Let's have our eyes open if someone is pushing... And looking at it this way I think I have an idea whom I'm going to listen extra carefully toDay.

But the problem with that is Shelob could also do that, and we have no way of knowing for certain if the pushing person is Shelob or the Doctor until xe is lynched.

Oh, right. Numbers game. But it's still possible.

announcement
 

Wilwa has to work late and will not be back toDay.

Bleh- busier than I thought I'd be. Not caught up on reading at all.

But first-
Phantom remains innocent. Wilwa remains innocent. Lottie at worst has been stung last night. Lhuna- it's doubtful she's been stung given Sam's likely cure choice the first day and my promise of a Day 3 lynch hanging over her since Day 1, therefore I consider it reasonable not to include her as a candidate today.

That leaves for candidates-
Nerwen
Inzil
Shasta
Fea
Nog

I think it's best to get this out of the way before I fall asleep where I'm sitting:

++Loslote

I'm still more inclined to distrust her than the phantom. Now if only I had impeccable gut feel...

Top two suspects? I can do that...

1. Zil. This should really come as a surprise to no one by this point. Once again, I have nothing other than pretty much every post of his I read sounds like evil!Zil, not normal!Zil.

2. This one's harder, because I have more people that I think are innocent than I have people that I think are evil, but if I had to pull a name, Shasta and tp are the two I'd think are most likely evil. Shasta simply because I haven't seen anything to the contrary, and tp because I'm starting to get squirmy feelings about him. Neither of them are anywheres near suspicious enough for a vote, though.

I'm sure Boro would try to stick it out if he had evil associates depending on him, but we know that sometimes RL undoes our most devious WW plans. At any rate, Nienna's role was revealed when she dropped out, so the same should be the case with Boro.

I could say the same about you.

I have an idea as well, but I may be wrong, so I'm going to keep all options on the table.

Unlikely To Get My Vote ToDay:

Wilwa- No particular evil vibes from her, and that along with her absence the remainder of the Day removes her from consideration.

Lhuna- No evil feeling. Makes sense. A repworthy performance if she's bad.

Fea- Insane banter, yes. Yet I don't get the idea that it's evil in nature.

Everyone Else:

tp: I never know quite what he's up to, and I'm not convinced either way that he's good or bad. Was in on both innocent bandwagons, along with Nog.

Nog: His presence on both the aforementioned bandwagons is curious. Seems to be playing rather carefully, for him.

Nerwen: As I said of her before, she's not the aggressive evil-hunting Nerwen I'm used to. RL? Spider shenanigans? Could be either.

Shasta: Not around much at all. Did he vote yesterDay? I'd hate to have him slide through with submarine tactics if he's evil.

Lottie: I was a little mollified by the way she responding to my pushing back at her yesterDay. However, her single-minded insistence on wanting to lynch me (because I tend to be a rather easy lynch) has me worried she could be a spiderling doing the grunt work for Shelob.

x/d with Lottie herself

You've played with me before, Zil. It hasn't been that long. Surely you remember that I've been stubbornly insistent when I think I'm right in pretty much every game of WW I've ever played? This reason for suspecting me is not your strongest ever, to put it lightly. ;)

All I'm going to say is that you're either evil, or just plain wrong. :p

Possible, although I would think it more likely the one faking it would be a spiderling as the risk is too big... I mean the fact is, that the Doc - if he "pushes" - will deliver us a baddie and a faker will not (I don't think they can afford to sacrifice one of them as there is no unambiguous "X is innocent" proof involved and the real Doc would still remain to "push" even more).

Let's check the scenarios.

Doc has a stinged and pushes for her/his lynch. The baddies will not make contesting pushes. We lynch a baddie.

Doc has stinged and pushes, but Shelob or a spiderling makes rival insistence on someone else. We lynch one of the "pushed ones". If that person is a baddie we have dealt a huge blow to Shelob and at the best scenario she has no spiderling any more (with luck Sam could heal the one stinged last Night and Shelob would be back to square one). If that person we lynch is a non-stinged person, we know that the one pushing her/him is a baddie and we lynch her/him toMorrow and Shelob is one down.

If Doc has none known stinged he will not push. If someone pushes someone else and we lynch an innocent because of that we know the one pushing was a baddie and we lynch her/him the next Day.


What do you say?

Doctor. The. Doct. Tor.



Erm, I mean it's two hours 'til DL.

Votes:

Lhuna-->Lottie