If it wasn't so urgent, I might be up for it - we'll probably get Angu to visit us shortly and he could then correct the village when going back. Plus it might yield interesting reactions. But yeah we probably can't afford it right now. Grr I don't like this.

You have a point... (And yes Nog, I have read each and every one of your posts where you've asked the same.) But I just can't see Nog as innocent.

Okay I confess. I never read anything you say, and I peeked into the dead thread when I was still alive. (I also quoted my PMs and intentionally switched off invisible mode.)

Mith: I did actually ask this already earlier, but would you give your two cents on this: what was the general mood back there (you're the last one coming from there)? Could they really believe we have gotten one wolf already? And as I said already back then: that might help us think about Ang and therefore help us understand the situation.

I think it's interesting that the two people who drove Lommy to the gallows in the end were Legate of Amon Shoe and Green. They brought up the cobbler points against her and suddenly everyone else was suspicious of her too...

Also, what do you think of sally's case against Angu in light of what has happened lately? Is it too strong to be wolfish?

I think our wolves are among these people:
A Little Green
Nerwen
satansaloser2005
Boromir88

And here are our extra vote options, again:
A Little Green
Nerwen
the phantom
Anguirel

The only one I trust is Angu but we'll have to see...

Anguirel would be the safest bet for the extra vote, but not necessarily the wisest. Depends who he votes. (Ha, as if I knew whom I suspect myself!)

I have to vote and go soon because I promised Greenie she can have the computer 00.38. ;)

Okay Agan, let's not start again this. And I think you can't afford that scorn anyway.

You try to give the impression you are reading all I have posted and even after that have no reason to believe me. Heh. How can you then say this: How about these?

Okay. I'll cut it with that.

Just one last remark on the subject: Which you clearly don't mean... I'm okay with that though. But you shouldn't be sorry just for me, but for yourself and all the other innocents who are threathened because you don't even try to look at things from a different (=truthful) POV.

I mean if you really read and thought of what I said and then said it's bad thinking and won't help us - pointing to the flaws etc., I'd be happy to stand corected and try harder to find the truth. But the fact that you wouldn't even consider, that you say there is no argument to make you change your mind, makes this all quite futile for me.


How about you fex. thought about my theory of the wolves and gave it a good scrutiny? Or came up with a better theory?

We need to have a general picture anyway if we wish to help the innocents in the end of the Day.

Messages or not... there probably will not be a next Day if we fail toDay.

Here and reading, with a question - did I miss something, Nog, that you're so sure BG was innocent? Is there any reason she couldn't be a wolf (and her wolf role given to a cobbler)?

I think Rikae said somewhere that she is now ordinary innocent and that her alignment didn't change. Not going to go back to find it though as I try to get back to reading the living thread.

It isn't a real place. I can only go on what is posted as we can here. I have said what I think about Ang. I have no reason to doubt him.

Okay

++Anguirel

*deep sigh*

That's all I can do for now. See you soon again.

I was talking about changing the plan for today. As I saw it, you were dissing the plan in general. I wouldn't compare them like that.
And my not believing you has more to do with what you did when you were still alive. If you're the seer I have a piece of advice for you: cut down drinking and go to sleep earlier when playing werewolf. (I know this sounds like I'm just trying to be a prick but I'm not. You've been freaking weird in this game and I have a hard time putting it all down on RL reasons.)

I mean it, I really do. I would hate to be seer!Nog right now and having to put up with stubborn people like me.

Have you looked at your posts from someone's point of view who doesn't know your role?

Yeah, Rikae just said her new role is of the same alignment as her previous. It's somewhere in the living thread.

the phantom is starting to speak on Boro not being a wolf... interesting.

I speculated earlier tp would sacrifice himself toDay for the wolves to win. But is he too proud for that after all? Remains to be seen...


But okay. I promised to look at the things from another persective than my theory. Well a decent opportunity has arisen with the revelations. So what if they are true?

Let's look at it from that POV.

Anguirel - ranger
Elron - hunter

the phantom - cobbler (from this I do not back away as I know it)

Leaves:

Boro
Glirdan
Greenie
Nerwen
Sally

So three of the last five would be wolves, the two remaining are either two innocents or an innocent and a cobbler.

Now the wolves will not lynch or Nightkill the hunter - so Elra will live.

The wolves seem not to be driving the "let's send the ranger to Mandos to get some info" -game, at least yet. Which might talk on behalf of Ang being true.

If we have a false reveal to out the real gifted I'd bet Elron more likely as ousting the hunter would be a better deal of the two. Anyway, back to the scenario they speak the truth.

So the wolves need to get one lynched from the two innocents of the last five, or the phantom.

It's hard for me to see Boro as an innocent after him saying the phantom is just a cobbler, but let's lynch him nevertheless. That's wolf-talk - and actually exactly the message the wolves would need to send to him: we know you're the cobbler, now we need to lynch you to get us safely into the Night - where they, thanks to the revelations would now know whom to not try. And it would be a wolf win.

This is no Day for lynching cobblers if the village wishes to face another Day.

But who else but Boro then?

I'll go back check the thread for votes & stuff...

Right, but cobbler/wolf would make sense in this context too, right? Or am I heinously missing something? If I am I blame being sick.

:) Okay, understood, and here we can agree! :D

I just had this really horrifying image flash through my head that phantom is actually the seer. Can y'all imagine? :rolleyes:

If so, it would suit him perfectly fine to playact being a cobbler, since the wolves would let him live indefinitely.

And if he's not, I think that's where he's headed with his "Boro, where are you? I neeeeeeed you!" thing.

"Dear peons of this game, it is I, the phantom, your Real Seer, and I have come to completely Blow Your Minds with my last minute revelation."

I hate it when he does things like that, but you're right, that would totally be him.

It would be rather glorious....

One way or another, this game will rank amongst the legends...

The last hours of D2 and the first hour of N3 disregarding, I think I have made perfect sense. And there is a shameful reason for that short period of lapse of self-control - even if it was aided by a quite heavy bandwagon that started already earlier - and had I went to sleep earlier I would most probably have been lynched anyway...

But if you took off that part of the game and just looked at what I have said before and after that... but no, you will not... So I'm not exactly sure if I'd have to say this is my fault afterall (even if I feel like that almost all the time).

Oh bugger, I promised not to delve into this anymore.

Back to work so that I can get to sleep.


Oh, another bugger: so Lommy voted, right? Not sure if that was wise...

I agree on this. (Regardless of what I think of you, I am going to be civil from now on. :p)

No I don't think so. I'm too lazy to look up the posts or come up with an explanation, just trust me on this. :p

I thought about that too. It comes down to whether he's selfish enough to possibly harm the village just because he wants to stay alive. I'm more inclined to believe Nog than him though... ;)

Erm what on earth is this about? Is he signalling to a suspected wolf, or is there a meaning I just didn't see?

That would be legendary indeed.

Sadly it is not that way.

:D

I've disagreed with some things you've said even before and after that but it might not be such a big issue if my trust in you hadn't completely crumbled during day 2. So yeah that I can take the blame for because it's just a (very dominating) part of my personality - trust once lost won't come back. (Fortunately we're only speaking in terms of this particular WW game. ;))

I don't know who Angu is going to vote, but at least we can trust it's an honest suspicion.

Legend Options, Seer Edition
 

Legend Option 1) The Seer successfully convinced every member of the village he was evil. The rest of the game was spent with him trying to convince them of his innocence, and them steadfastly ignoring him.

Legend Option 2) A bad guy posed as the Seer and successfully kept up his premise for the whole of the game. The real Seer waited to step forth until basically everybody was already dead.

I'm just going to point out that phanty-pants is over there being all wink-wink nudge-nudge at the declared Gifteds.

I think that's pretty straightworward. Cobbler phantom is convinced that Boro is a wolf and is querying Greenie whether she is as well & in that case signalling to her not to vote for him. Which means tp is to proud to offer himself? That is believable, but might actually make things harder for the wolves.

Okay, I'm taking back the last suggestion of my answer: he's not openly suggesting Greenie not to vote for him. The last part of the sentence: "so long as you don't plan on voting for a fellow I see no need for me to say any more at this time" could be just signalling to her "did you get my message on who I am?"

As Lommy has now voted already, what do you think is the best option we should take?

I mean I still think that if we have a run-down with a probable wolf and a probable innocent we should interfere if we can - disregarding any "message-sending" if we just can do it.

This game hangs on a thread and toDay might be the last one if we fail. But for that to happen the villagers should be able to get one of the wolves up in the tally and we should be able to use our vote around the DL as the situation demands.

That's why I dislike voting for our extravote too early as it ties the hands of those actually making the final decisions.

So should we spread the vote now as to give the DL voters more space to manouver (had none casted early votes the DL voters could choose anyone)? Kind of a dejá-vu feeling, like I had been arguing for this already yesterDay... :rolleyes:

Just saying that I'll be mighty amused if Nog really is the seer... That makes Lottie a cobbler, right?

The day after Mith was attacked unsuccessfully. I wonder if this means anything...

Here's a rough summary of which living unknowns (assuming Angu & ed are telling the truth) the living have suspected/defended.

BORO
suspected: Glirdan, phantom
defended: Greenie, Nerwen, sally

SALLY
suspected: Boro

GREEN
suspected: sally, Glirdan
defended: phantom, Nerwen

GLIRDAN
suspected: Boro, phantom
defended: phantom (earlier), Nerwen, sally

PHANTOM
suspected: Greenie (never much and dropped it after day 2), Boro
defended: Nerwen, Boro

NERWEN
suspected: Boro, sally, Green, phantom (the last three mostly during the last two days)

I think it's interesting Boro is on everybody's suspect list except Greenie's. Either he's innocent or the wolves feel the need to have a potentially lynchable fellow.

Sally has mostly gone after players who have turned out innocent (Angu) or are dead (Lottie). I wonder about her Angu attack. Could it be genuine? I'm pretty sure Green and sally aren't wolves together though, she wouldn't have voted for her.

Nerwen hasn't really been defending anyone. Her last three suspects came up relatively late and at least the sally & Green accusations were somewhat wishy-washy - a wolf storing up possible lynching candidates? She's been very sneaky and I can definitely see her as a wolf.

The wolves know Nessa was not one. Therefore they know either Green, Nerwen, phantom or Angu is getting the vote, and they're probably counting on it being Angu (at least after his revelation). I'm assuming they're holding their votes till he has voted (if possible) and placing them so that the lynch benefits them. Maybe a double lynch unless the runner-up is a wolf...

This is more to clear my head than anything else...

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-3

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D7: 2-2

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill Angu)
D6: 2-4 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4

D5: 3-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, ranger save)
D6: 2-5 (+ they lynch a wolf, kill an ordo)
D7: 1-4 (+ they lynch an ordo, kill an ordo)
D8: 1-2 (except if Angu was killed it's 1-3)

It isn't looking too bright. While lynching a wolf is most important, if they manage to do it today but get a false message from us they're in trouble tomorrow (because they think they can afford to lynch a cobbler, or try this suspicious person, etc). That would basically give the wolves the upper hand (because regardless of how few players are left, the wolves are going to push the idea of us sending them messages and not stopping just because we're worried about the situation).

Phantom
 

He's quoting this:

Makes it sound like he's hinting that he's the Seer, and that he's dreamed of Boro, who's the Hunter. And that while Boro is innocent, he's all misguided and whatnot.

Obviously, being innocent, I'd like to see the good guys pull off a sweeping victory. But regardless of my role, this is amusingly fascinating to watch...

PS, in case it wasn't clear, all of that phantom stuff adds up to insinuate that Elron is a lying liar who lies a lot.

Yeah, it does. Too bad for him Boro said he won't be back today (at least that's how I interpreted it).

Either he's actually the seer, or he's trying to make Angu protect him so the wolves (Boro probably being one in this scenario) can kill him without trouble.

He won't be back until tomorrow evening. I know what he's doing, and it doesn't involve internet access.

Yep. Glad I don't have to do anything about it but watch. :)

Huh. Scary. Especially if I didn't know he was Glorfy... but even now, given that we don't know what phantom is up to.

(See Nog, I don't trust him either if it's of any comfort. :p)

If Angu is gunning for Greenie, I'm even more tempted to give the extra vote to him.

Given that Ang is the only living person I trust right now... I think I'm fine with the vote going to him. What does that tell the living, though?

Did you look also as what kind of suspicions they were on Boro, on what kind of a situation, and did they turn into votes?

I mean you can just say "X looks fishy" in a point when it is of no consequence or you can push to lynch him adding a full-out case against him when he is already under heavy scrutiny...

I mean I still think Boro is a wolf.

Glirdy's vote for Boro makes Glirdy look better now as the wolves would not make wolf-on-wolves on such a Day. Also as one who played two games in a row with him as a wolf, I remember him managing to get me lynched both times prematurely by backing me too enthusiastically while making cardinal errors himself... This time he seems not too nervous and his greatest involvement in defending someone I think was for innocent Wilwa.

If those two are correct, then from the shortlist of Greenie, Sally & Nerwen two would have to be wolves. Interestingly enough there is also one vote cast between those three, namely Greenie's vote for Sally.

So Boro, Greenie & Nerwen as the wolves?

And whatever the scenario, Greenie's vote for Sally kind of makes Nerwen a wolf (no wolf-on wolves toDay) by default.

I'm not too confident about that but I do think it earns a notification as a possibility.


Why not confident?

I could be wrong with Glirdy to be sure. but there is also another matter.

That is: I wouldn't rule out at least one fake revelation. Basically I'm thinking of this: I do agree here with Greenie that revealing as the hunter isn't kind of what the hunters are there for - disregarding certain special situations where it might be a good idea (which this certainly isn't!!!). But it might go both ways.

Elron is a relatively new player to the game and might not just see why it would be instrumental at this point for the hunter to stay hidden and hope to get killed having a decent chance to get a wolf with her.

But it is also possible that, after looking at the amount of suspicion and votes coming her way lately that she had been instructed by her seniors to fake-reveal as no seasoned hunter woud then counter-reveal to expose her/himself - and thus she would duck the gallows toDay. And toDay is what matters to the wolves.


Also I see you seem to trust Anguirel without a question made. If you look at my earlier post about Ang (not only the one saying Ang is a wolf, but especially the earlier one where I tried to make sense of his posting earlier toDay), you can see why I do not buy it without reservations. He might be true for sure, especially if he thought the innocents have already bagged a wolf (although even then his maths would suck - which he pre-emptively said :) - and make his move a bit reckless one, which I'm not used to see from Ang).

But with him the question really arises, wold the real ranger stood back in silence? That's a hard one. It's more or less clear the real hunter would have lad low if someone fake-revealed at this kind of a situation, but with the ranger it's not that clear.

Ahh... I see lots of posting going on. Reading then.


PS. Is your 'Downs working really slow? Mine is...

That Nessa was not a wolf.

But if you're feeling well enough to hang here till the deadline, that would be super. I have a feeling phantom might just be leading Angu by the nose to vote for someone he shouldn't...

I could definitely see that. I could also see Boro, sally & Nerwen, but Greenie more than that.

Yeah, what if Boro is the real hunter? :D

I wouldn't be too worried about that now though. I mean even though it's possible, we gain more by lynching someone who hasn't revealed. I'd prefer Nerwen because I feel the worst about her, but Greenie and Boro are options too, or sally. It all depends on how the voting goes (even though I'm not planning to hang out here till the deadline).

Nope. Go to Hádanka. :p

Uh-oh.

See this as well - as he is clearly addressing the phantom all the time... So the final instructions for tp / correcting him on Greenie?

I don't like it at all. Check my early post on Anguirel toDay and think of what I said in there. And him calling the hunter out after that. Please. It might be the key to this?

I was actually thinking about phantom when saying 'I don't trust him' (yeah I'm being unclear, sorry!)... But it's still weird an innocent should ask the hunter to reveal, although what I said about getting known innocents stands.

I think Angu's quote meant more like 'Good ol' boy, I know you're the seer and have dreamed of Boro, let's win this now!'

If someone held a revolver on my forehead and demanded for a take on the wolves I'd probably say Ang, Boro and Nerwen... (or Elra swopping places with Nerwen as Ang did protect Elron quite boldly earlier).

Well, Ang and Boro anyway? This just looks too much like
a) trying to out the gifteds (and then revealing as one)
b) hinting to the phantom quite openly (different strategies though, but Boro had to leave early - thus the correcting moves by Ang and all the questioning by tp).

Just check this: What else is this but trying to tell the phantom that "I'm now straight-talking to you"? No veils, no foolery: "come with us on this and we'll win..." See even the first bolded part. It is a straight call to the phantom and the phantom only. "I'm addressing you here..."