I want to touch on a few of the items you mentioned. For the most part I agree with your innocent list. I say most part instead of all because I'm not in your innocent list. ;)

I know I've played with Nienna but can't seem to remember how she plays. However as you pointed out she's a BG voter. I think some of the people who have voted for BG have been throwing their votes away.

Not sure what you meant by this: Greenie (the nagging Persephone-suspicion persists since it fits so well)

I think you make a good point about Keeper. Maybe something to look at.

As you pointed out Inzil is a BG voter.

And I wanted to touch on Nerwen. To me her comment seemed innocent, and I didn't see her defending herself as being tense.

Edit: x-ed with up to post #237

You know, Nogrod and Mac's suspicion of me, Mac's of Boro and tum's of Mac all come down to the following bit of illogic:

And therefore, if you can't find proper hints, then any comment about the role "must" be a hint, even if it doesn't make sense as one.

EDIT:X'd since Mac's vote-post... and I see Nog's made this argument again.

Now that just put a BIG smile on my face! :D In a strange way that really does make sense.

I hear you Nog! I keep thinking that I really do need to vote soon, but then this is just sooo interesting that I'm not ready to put my laptop away and call it a night. Not to mention I really need to look at who I want to vote for. Yet at this time I don't see any unity on the votes other than the ones for BG.

No, actually I don't believe you. I don't believe there's any "perfect" way I could have responded that would have convinced you of my innocence. Whatever I did, you'd be saying it was a sign of guilt and something else the perfect response of an innocent. Sorry, played with you too many times, Nogrod.

Again, attributing motive to me: I wasn't "trying to find a scapegoat". I wanted explanations from Mac for his conduct.

See my last post for why this is invalid.

Edit: X'd since my last post.

Thought I'd share the vote count:

Foley -> Eonwe
Greenie -> Mac
Kath -> BG
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> BG (2)
Nienna -> Eonwe (2)
Sally -> BG (3)
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> BG (4)
Keeper -> BG (5)
Rikae -> phantom
Mac -> Nerwen (2)
BG -> Inzil

I did notice that Keeper didn't give a reason.

All right- I've skimmed everything now at least. Two things-

1) Does anyone have an updated tally?

2) Does BG's vote count (it doesn't have ++)?

edit: x-posted, so never mind the tally

Mod God Interferes Pt. 2
 

Again, I will count BeiGei's vote for now. However, from this Day on, everyone MUST vote as so -------> [ highlight]++insert name here[ /highlight]

I have spoken!

Okay, I think I'm caught up for the most part (although there was a lot of skimming involved).

Re: Nerwen and Nogrod - to be honest, I think they're the standard two innocent vs. innocent that generally appear during day one. The light of my life is smarter than to openly announce that she's Hades, I think. And Nogrod has a tendency to go after one person early on regardless of their alignment (I would know, :p).

Re: Boro - I don't see a reason for Zeus to be hinting to Hera, or to be hinting at all. I don't think his comment was a hint.

Re: Eonwe - I'm putting my vote on him. If he's the Cursed we're better off lynching him now then letting him be turned at night.

++Eonwe

With that the vote for Inzil is up in the air. So my list may or may not include Inzil.

Edit: x-ed with Mod and Shasta

I'M still going to be killed right?

I'm not keen on lynching BG today, but if Nerwen continues to attract attention I will vote to preserve her, as I feel her to be quite innocent.

I'm going to go back now and take a look at Steve's post and see what I think.

Heh- I really seem to be disagreeing with Nog's suspicions today (his suspicions of those who reacted to Boro as well as Nerwen).

Notice
 

There is still 1 hour left before DL with six players left to vote.

The tally at this time is as follows:

Folwren --> Eonwe
Greenie --> Mac
Kath --> BeiGei
Lalaith --> Boromir
Zil --> BeiGei 2
Nienna --> Eonwe 2
Sally --> BeiGei 3
Nog --> Nerwen
Wilwa -> BeiGei 4
Mira --> BeiGei 5
Rikae --> the phantom
Mc --> Nerwen 2
BeiGei --> Zil
Shasta --> Eonwe 3

I think we should keep Eonwe around. If he turns then we can always lynch him the next day. Right?

There goes my getting back into more European timetable... :rolleyes:

Heh. You can not deny the lovers (and Dionysos) have a great urge to get themselves known to their allies (and with Dionysos I'm pretty positive he thinks the wolves are his allies as that's the role he's going to get if thwey spot him and he knows that in advance he's the one). It's really a big thing. The power of especially Hades after getting in contact with Persephone is far greater he has before meeting up with her. Actually he will die if Persephone dies before they get into contact but if they get into contact first, he has a revenge-kill and all that... With his lover beside him he's one of the most powerful players around, without her he's one of the most vulnerable.

I'm not talking about the suspicions of Mac or tum - even if it would suit you to bring them all together claiming they are the same thing. But I can say there is logic to what I am saying and I'm doing this because of that.

And looking at the situation (the overpowering need of so many people to find out their mate or group) it's clear some of them would risk trying it. Looking at the thread though gives one just a few candidates so they should be looked even more closely. And your mentioning Hades makes perfect sense, Nerwen. Just because it was made so early you could have not known people like me would jump on it later as there was no general discussion about looking after such hints. I mean stating it after the fact, that why would a wolf-lover say something like that if it made such a noise, is kind of futile as a wolf couldn't have known beforehand it would arouse such a discussion. Looking at the timing of your posting would actually suggest you were confident enough to throw that in as others would rant as well - and Persephone could get the hint anyway...

Certainly, I'm not sure about this. Who would be on D1? But it's by far the best lead I have - as it seems we'll get some information about the Dionysos turning.


X'd with a crowd of posts...

Thank you.

Indeed... though I am wondering about his apparent hypersensitivity on the subject of Hades. You know, sometimes people get obsessed with a role because it's their role? In fact it happens surprisingly often.

EDIT:X'd since BG at #250.

I don't deny it. But the fact that they have a motive for hinting openly doesn't prove they have.

Indeed. I think it's mostly silly fun, but I do think out of all of it I've got a fairly good feeling about Nog. He's reminding me less of his real life WW counterpart, and in a good way.

Although, I'm not sure there was a wolf in that group trying to look at my Zeus comments. Greenie looks more or less ok, looking at all her posts in their entirety, and not just the part where I confused her with the remarks.

Wilwa and Mac know better, if they're wolves to try and pick a fight and lynch me this early, because they know I wouldn't go down easily and in the veyr least if I died they would follow. Wilwa I like slightly more than Greenie in all of it.

Mac I'm confused by what he's trying to say it is, whether I'm a random lover leaving the most vague nigh impossible hint for my partner to try and pick up on, or that I was hinting I was Zeus? Because Mac, you mentioned Mith's game where I bluntly said I was the cobbler and everyone ignored it as banter. So, you're right, I have done it and I enjoy it immensely and would probably do it again if I needed entertainment. However, for this to be true, you would have to be saying that I'm Zeus, which you said you didn't think I was doing.

In all of it, Mac's been the most astute, a bit confusing no doubt, but astute as to knowing there were intentions in that post. Question is would you believe me if I said, Zeus has absolutely nothing to do with those intentions, you're looking at the wrong part. :p

Eonwe and Lalaith feel a little less good, Eonwe's been talked enough and Lalaith, while I feel the most wary about her clinging to my Zeus post for her vote. It's too crappy of a feeling to vote for her, 'specially since she's this is her first time back in a while. Need more time on her.

Okay, so I read Steve's posts, and I think he's innocent. His wine comment is the only thing that I could see that would make him look bad to anyone. Some of the other things he said were quite good. He was the one who floated the idea of the two Rangers working together to protect the Seer in fact. I see no reason for him to have suggested that as a baddie. Anyway, yeah, I can't see supporting his lynch.

Problem is, the other two people with multiple votes- I don't suspect them either. At this point though it does me little good to try floating another candidate. It seems to me that it will likely come down to deciding which person I wish to save the most. Bleh.

The former, apparently.

EDIT:x'd with tp.

I really want Tum lynched; I'm fairly sure she's a wolf. I don't want BeiGei lynched; there's no reason for this bandwagon, and I've been on the recieving end of enough wrong bandwagons to know that it's incredibly frustrating. I don't want Nerwen lynched; I think she's innocent. I don't want Zil lynched; I think he's innocent. I don't want The Phantom lynched; that would be silly. I don't want Boro lynched; that would be illogical. I want Mac lynched; he seems furry. I wouldn't mind horribly if Steve were lynched, but I don't think it's the best move.

But neither Tum nor Mac look to be viable candidates toDay.

And I'm left with the option of seeing one of my darling probable innocents lynched, or Steve. I'm sorry, but that seems like the option I'll have to go with. I don't like it much, but lynching a probable Cursed is better than lynching a probable innocent.

++Steve

EDIT: xed since Nerwen's 256

Oh, and a word of warning to everyone- don't depend on a last minute reveal to save you. In a game with plenty of Ordos and fewer Gifteds it might work, but in this village pretty much everyone is a gifted. If we all switch our votes to save a Gifted, we're likely to just lynch another Gifted, and possibly one who is more useful, not to mention the ever present possibility that the reveal is merely a WW attempting to save his hide. Doubt coupled with risk- last minute "save me" shouts are just less likely to work.

No, I'm not suggesting that you reveal earlier to save yourself, I'm just saying you need to defend yourself as the voting goes along as you probably cannot afford to wait and see.

Also, am I correct in thinking there are no retractions in this game?

edit: x-post (Yet nother Steve vote?)

It seems as though one of the people I see as innocent is going to get lynched toDay. Out of the three with the most votes I see all of them as innocent. It doesn't seem right to vote for any of them.

The one I feel least inclined to vote for is Eonwe. Not sure who to vote for between BG and Nerwen. However if it came to where I had to save Eonwe I think I'd have to vote for BG. Sorry BG. :(

Really, lynching BeiGei is your most cowardish option. And someone should really look closely who made it if that is what you do.

Lynching Eonwë I would not oppose to as I'm more or less convinced he's the cursed one and the wolves sure have picked him - and I don't understand that talk of him trying to be on the good side and tricking the wolves. Let us hear some arguments why he would do that and how do we seem him doing it (well, tomorrow, that is, or after his death anyway, not prior to it) as opposed to how we have seen him acting today.

Nerwen has two votes and you know what I think of her role.


Also I'm pretty confused with the phantom's points... I do normally follow his train of thought quite clearly but now I just think he has the perfect opposite view from mine and I'm baffled.

Of the other one-vote-havers Inzil, Boro and Mac I think are more innocent than not at the time.

Even if I could blame:
- Inzil for opportunism (going the way people went when he voted and being secure not to vote someone who would retaliate)
- Boro for being overtly cunning and avoiding (it's not the number of posts but the number of issues he has commented on - and the way he has done it).
- Mac for, well first not suspecting me heavily, but more like agreeing with me the most of the time!

But that's only those who have gotten votes thus far.

No. But the fact that they have a motive - and the urge to do that - does make you look suspiciously at anything of the sort going about...


X'd with a host again...

All I can say is: it will hurt you if I was lynched.

So after making that post I think it's time for me to vote and go to bed.

++BG

Edit: x-ed with Nog and BG

Rest assured you still know me quite well, thanks dear. Now, if I know you well, hopefully you read this ere the night ends, and hopefully it doesn't confuse you. Don't hestitate to pick me, sorry for any trouble, I gotta know.

A rather pointless comment here, but if I had six votes in my pocket I might actually give Nog a try, primarily because he is stretching to make attacks I disagree with.

I might also give Boro a try since he has been so unusually absent, and I can't work with him the way I usually do, plus frankly I have no clue how to read a quiet Boro. Getting him out of the way might be a weight off at the least.

But yeah- obviously not enough votes to get either of them lynched.

EDIT: x-posted with many
Ask me a question and I'll try to answer it. What do you wonder about?

Nothing was posted here. Ignore me

BeiGei voters - especially the later ones - really really need to be looked at toMorrow. I'd say most especially Tum, but that's just personal suspicion.

Boro - what the hey are you talking about? What happened to "Boro's not a hinting lover?" :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed with BeiGei.

Finally managed to catch up with the thread. Ok.

Now that to me seems a bit like one of those "Oh, I don't know what's happening, let me just randomly vote this person, and if they're innocent it's not my fault" kind of wolf-votes. Though, on the other hand, it was really quite early, so I don't think it's really incriminating.

If anyone still wants more detail on this, and Rikae's link isn't explanative enough, this might explain it. Blame tgwbs for this (And I didn't even play in that game in the end!).

I had originally quoted lots of false/true seer posts to reply to, but it seems that that topic's been almost exhausted now. I'll just say that I think it's hard enough to interpret well-hidden seer hints successfully, so hints for xem being false will be even harder. Especially as they wouldn't know if xe's the True or False Seer until later. And also, why are we assuming that the False seer knowing that xe's false. We could easily end up with the False Seer not realising xyr nature. That's the problem I was trying too address. And then, what about false Seer reveals? Having two Seers just makes that even more complicated.

Wait, so do revenge kills go through even if the target is Ranger-Protected?

Exactly. There's almost as much chance of the wolves seeing any false hints as us. And with the Lovers talking to them as well (I assume they also don't want the Seer finding their Lover a Wolf), they have 7 of them (Of course, we have 13, but we're not all united in one purpose like they are- in this case, killing the Seer).

This is what I originally thought. She could be hinting that she wants Hades to talk to her. Of course, this whole Nerwen thing could be blown highly out of proportion, especially considering the thing below.

Because the gods do not fall ill. The only way they succumb is to alcohol and poison. My sleep-deprived brain tried to make an in-game analogy, and look what it's turned into! And why would I be so obvious as well? Because I didn't think of it as a hint, I seem to have ignored the fact that any reference to Greek mythology could refer to one of the roles, and that suspicions have been based on many of these. In fact, I even commented on one of these in that very post. So why would I make it so obvious? I might as well have just said "Lynch me! Lynch me!" all day.

And Nogrod, if you are innocent, why would you mention that I could be Cursed if no-one had picked up on it yet? If I had been the Cursed, you would have just advertised me to the wolves. Of course, it is true that you may have found it harder to convince others of it later if the Cursed does turn, but probably not much more than you did toDay. Though then again, if there would be less evidence later, you might have realised that it was just a bad choice of words.

Yes, sorry village. And the problem is that now you've wasted your time debating over me instead of the real matter at hand- the wolves.

Much too obvious, as I said. And because he's sticking to this so much, maybe Nogrod's a wolf who's trying to double-bluff by suggesting that I'm the Cursed so that if it turns out that I am, he could seem like he was trying to help the village, while totally distancing himself from the wolves (who would probably try to keep it quiet). In fact, maybe this whole thing is something Nogrod decided to latch onto because doing this would make him seem so un-wolvish.

Now honestly, I wouldn't do that as a Cursed. Until xe is tured into a wolf, the Cursed is on the side of the village. I always try to play fair in WW, so if I was the Cursed it would be completely against my role, and the moral obligations of the game of Werewolf in general. So no, it would just be wrong to do something like that.


Some more comments:

-Mac is strange(r than usual) in this game. Sometimes he seems innocent and helpful, other times he seems very calculating and sneaky (And I'm not sure which the "Day in Three Parts" or whatever list comes up in. Probably both. At first I thought it looked good but now it seems that maybe he's trying to look helpful too much. But it is quite an original idea, so maybe not.) I'm currently leaning towards an Innocent, but quite possible an Innocent Lover.

-The BG bandwaggon is bad. Very bad.

-Greenie also seems like there's something strange about her. Not evil, per se, but not totally innocent and looking out for the village. So I also suspect Lover, though Innocent or Wolf I cannot tell.

edit: x-ed with this entire page.

What happens in the case of a tie?

Mod God Interferes Pt. 3
 

In case of a tie, it shall be the last person to receive a vote that shall be lynched.

Anyone who's not a wolf, who dies will probably hurt us ya know. I can say the same about myself, the question in this will be the degree of hurt. Cus right now I'd venture to guess that on a scale of 1 to 10...if I were theoretically up to be lynched, and I was, it would probably hurt the village about a 7. You, I'm pegging at a 5 so far.

Now here we disagree again - and it is nice to see you taking that up as I let that out from my final account of him to see would anyone else take it up and in what way would they do it.

Now, if he really wants to get killed, what would he do? Raise the awareness of the wolves, surely. The "wolf!" post was the first trial and the Dionysos thing was his second... but then he wanted to make sure he got the attention and went for that great idea of rangers doing double-shift... if they didn't get the hint from the earlier ones, the wolves should find him dangerous and thus kill him!

Maybe he was waiting for more immediate feedback or just tried all his options as they came to him, I don't know. And obviously I'm not 100% sure about it, but it looks like it really all talks about the same thing. All those posts could be seen as ways to attract the wolves into killing him - and that's a lot from one person on one Day just randomly!

Heh, x'd again...

There are other roles who have picks of their own to make who are not lovers ya know.

That sounds seerish to me. Cause one seer is false. Or a wolf trying to look important.

Mm, but that's the one that comes to mind, particularly with the recent...for lack of a better phrase..."Zeus scandal." Really though, your blatant disregard for others' suspicion makes you seem almost innocent. Bugger, my brain hurts. :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed with BeiGei

All right- time to decide my vote. The multi-vote getters I believe to be innocent, so....

Nerwen is the one I like the most. Definitely won't vote for her. Plus I believe she may be low enough that she would be a throwaway as well.

BG under most circumstances would definitely be my choice (due to play style and such), but as BG is very new (at least to me) and has according to what I'm hearing been lynched early on a regular basis, I'm going to attempt to spare her this time around out of courtesy, leaving me with...

++ Eonwe

Sorry, lad, but I just don't want to jump on the BG wagon. Not on Day 1. I want to give her a chance.

(x-posted with many posts)

I would second this. His arguments do seem quite stretched, for example his suspicion of me would mean I have to go against both my role and even the spirit of the game.

edit: x-ed since last post.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think there's a simpler explanation. Boro is saying that he's important. A 5 indicates that you'd be a loss, yes, but average loss. The Hunter, for instance, would be a loss of about 1 - we wouldn't have lynched a wolf, but that's what the Hunter was meant to do, die. The Seer would normally be a loss of about 9, but in this game, probably more of a 7 or 8. (This is, of course, my ranking. I have no idea how Boro'd rank roles.) You wouldn't have to be a Seer to hazard a guess that your role is about average - it's a safe guess. Most peoples' roles are about average.

Heh. This wasn't meant to be so long. :rolleyes:

EDIT: xed since my last