|
Votes
Uldor-3
Mandos, Doom of-2 Azaghal-1 Hurin-1 Gothmog-my interpretation of the Doom is not that it physically saps Noldorin strength, but that it ultimately thwarts Noldorin enterprises. With the Doom present, the Union of Maedhros, for instance, cannot succeed in its aims of, er, unity and defiance of Morgoth. There are also side products like Maeglin's love for Idril, and possiblly vice-versa. Whether that will go with the Doom, I leave you to speculate...as I also leave you to wonder what the state of Idril's feelings have been tending Maeglin's Dragon-wounds. That sub-plot has been put aside, but I'll reveal its result next write-up. Not a happy one... |
I've got to go with
+ + Glaurung With him the bad guys won a narrow, hard-fought victory. Without him, but with other, more immature, dragons, the dwarves might have stayed on the field and helped with a rather bloody draw. Bad guys pushed back to the gates of Angband with the help of the dwarves and Gondolin but both sides severely weakened. |
Here is my take on this challenge
first of all, Maedhros is still held captive my Morgoth, he will probably be the one killed to draw the armies into battle prematurely. Second, we do not have an alliance with the dwarves, so they will probably not come. THird, THingol has nothing against the Noldor, so he will be there. So in light of all this, I say to maximize casualties on both sides, we need to get rid of the accused traitor who will turn on the elves making it a complete slaughter and minimiae the casualties of the forces of Melkor. ++Uldor |
arctic:
Maedhros was rescued in a write-up ages ago by Fingon, Celegorm and Huan Azaghal owes Maedhros a life-debt; Telchar has a trading interest with Curufin but may not risk his life to defend it Thingol does have something against the Sons of Feanor, who are leading the coalition: Celegorm and Curufin attacked his daughter, and the brothers are angry with him for keeping a Silmaril from them... Sorry, don't mean to be so crushing! |
For all Anguirel said, Uldor is a good choice, arcticstorm. Read the earlier posts and I'm sure you'll find no reason to change your vote. Good choice but wrong reasons ;)
Anguirel: Quote:
Celuien: Quote:
|
Quote:
Lomion's far too good for Idril anyway. |
well, as i see it, the elvin coalition did fairly well even with the treachury of men. it would not surprise me to hear that melkor suspained infinately more losses than the elves did. i think somewere it says that elves took out orcs like a wind blowing dry leaves, or something like that. if you take out hurin, the battle goes just like planned, only the gondolindrim cannot flee the field of battle. eveyone is forced to make a last despate stand, in which elves will inflict many more casualties than they actually sustain, but will eventually be ground down by sheer numbers. (it was always my impression that morgoth used legions of vastly inferior troops, but evened it out by using more). i think taht maxamizes the carnage, doesn't it: total anihilation?
|
My bad about Maedhros still being captive, I had not seen that part of the post, but it seems that right now from what I have read from the posts, the hautynes sof the sons of feanor did not reach Thingol yet, only the lord of cats trying to secretly steal the silmarill. if this is the case, Thingol and Olwe will show up. maybe the dwarves will show up, not sure though, as we have no way of knowing whether Maedhros was able to make an alliance with them or not yet, so I will retract one of my prevfious statements, with two maybes. I will stick with my vote for Uldor though.
|
To even out the sides during the Nirnaeth.
++Uldor Voting out the Doom will only result in a story with little to no drama. Who wants to read the Silmarillion minus the drama, the angst, the grief? |
If the Doom of Mandos goes, we'll just get the Damnation of Eru.
|
Votes
Uldor & co.-5 Mandos, Doom of-3 Azaghal-1 Hurin-1 Glaurung-1 RESULTS OF DAY FIVE (M-e) Caranthir was strolling off to visit his vassal Uldor one evening. He entered the door into the chief's hall, but, hearing a whispered conversation, waited in the semi-darkness, listening intensely. Uldor and his brothers were talking to a black-robed, hooded figure. "Yes, yes," Uldor said, "absolutely. Easily done. I'll just keep Maedhros delaying until the army of Hithlum is wellnigh destroyed..." "Good," said the cloaked man, who bore an uncanny resemblance to the phantom. "That is...acceptable." Suddenly he changed into a hideous bat, and flew out into the night through one of the windows. Caranthir did not wait for an explanation. He rushed forward with a drawn broadsword and hacked the sons of Ulfang into pieces... RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE Ulfang had sworn he had known nothing of his sons' treachery, and so was permitted to march to war beside Caranthir. The Union of Maedhros was drawing rich fruit. Fingon of Hithlum had answered; Azaghal of Belegost; Hurin of Dor-Lomin; Idril of Gondolin... When Idril and Maeglin had returned from the Bragollach, Maeglin had been so severely burnt by dragon-fire that it seemed unlikely he could live. His face was a charred, black wreck. On seeing his son, Eol had fallen on Anguirel. But Aredhel had taken Maeglin and nursed him, though Idril assured her he was doomed. He was not. He returned to life, and crafted a silver mask, with which he hid his ruined face. Then he returned to Idril's side; but she avoided him. He returned to the solitude of Nan Elmoth, and practised the art of combat. And Aredhel died of grief. So it was that Idril did not bring her cousin to the Nirnaeth. And so the battle began. The killing of Gelmir goaded Fingon and Hurin into battle; and they faced Eonwe, the Dark Herald. Numbers began to overpower them; but still Maedhros' host did not come...his scheme revealed, Ulfang had resorted to darker means, and had turned on the Sons of Feanor with all his men to delay them by force of arms, reinforced by many Orcs. Glaurung now charged Maedhros' line; but Azaghal defied him, and though he was slain and the Dwarves bore him away, the Dragon fled. Now Sauron and a band of werewolves hurled themselves deep into Hurin's army, hiding themselves. The Men of Dor-Lomin managed to lynch enough to drive them back, however... As Idril's troops arrived to reinforce Fingon, Eonwe struck him down; and Beleg and Mablung, the only fighters of Doriath present, assumed command temporarily. Eonwe retreated, his army battered, but a new one forayed from Angband... On the right flank where Maedhros fought, Caranthir fell, stabbed in the back, to the vengeance of Ulfang. Maglor avenged him speedily. Bor and his sons had also perished in the press. Overwhelmed by numbers, the four remaning sons of Feanor cut their way from the fray. Now Hurin and Huor, determined to save the army of Gondolin, fought a last stand while it retreated; and at last defied Morgoth's hosts alone. But now came unexpected aid at the last; a new force of Dwarves, from Nogrod, with an Elf at their head, in a strange silver mask...Morgoth was forced to send out Eonwe once more; and Hurin and the masked Elf slew him together. The Elf's sword shone gleaming black...as the Orcs fell back in dismay, the Elf and the Dwarves retired. But Hurin pressed on, seized by victory; till Huor fell, and Hurin was surrounded... The contestants: Tribes VALAR Elbereth Ulmo Mandos, Doom of NOLDOR Maedhros Maglor Celegorm Celebrimbor Curufin Ereinion Idril Maeglin Orodreth Finduilas TELERI/SINDAR Olwe Thingol Celeborn Galadriel Mablung Beleg Eol MAIA/ELF Luthien MAIA Melian Uinen Tilion (with Moon) Arien (with Sun) DWARVES Telchar of Nogrod Mim the Petty-dwarf Khim Ibun MEN Beren Dior Hurin Tuor Morwen Turin Nienor Haldir Handir FORCES OF EVIL Morgoth Sauron Glaurung Ancalagon (adolescent...) Morgoth, Curse of No new challenge till Wednesday. |
Wouldn't it be hard to hang a mass amount of werewolves during a battle? Good work, though.
|
Hmmm...very interesting progress. What I don't understand is why Ang had Gothmog the Great and Forever Beloved die before Nirn. I'm sure he could have spiced it up.
And Caranthir died? I'm shocked Ang! Shocked but happy, chocked that it was you who got him killed and happy because there's one less of the evil Cs. It was good two see two of my favourites, Mablung of the Heavy Hand and Beleg Cúthalion lead the troops. Quote:
Now what could be the next challenge? My guess is something Turambaristic. Time for the most tragic character ever presented to show himself. But the sword Maeglin wielded in this version of Nirn, was it Anglachel aka Gurthang or was it Anguirel? My guess is our dear Mod would like Anguirel to play a significant role in this story, so here's the comeback of the neglected twin-sword! I guess, as there's no voting to do, I had to write something to comment the latest events, though most of it was unnecessary to put in print. You have to do something to make your time go :p |
The contestants: (clarified, I forgot to remove the suicided Eol or add dear old Brodda the Easterling)
Tribes VALAR Elbereth Ulmo Mandos, Doom of NOLDOR Maedhros Maglor Celegorm Celebrimbor Curufin Ereinion Idril Maeglin Orodreth Finduilas TELERI/SINDAR Olwe Thingol Celeborn Galadriel Mablung Beleg MAIA/ELF Luthien MAIA Melian Uinen Tilion (with Moon) Arien (with Sun) DWARVES Telchar of Nogrod Mim the Petty-dwarf Khim Ibun MEN Beren Dior Hurin Tuor Morwen Turin Nienor Haldir Handir Brodda FORCES OF EVIL Morgoth Sauron Glaurung Ancalagon (adolescent...) Morgoth, Curse of The new, fifth challenge: A Dor-Lomin Adan at King Thingol's Court. Make sure Turin's time at Doriath is pleasantly angsty. ADDENDUM: That Gothmog's a shrewd one. Everything he said is quite right...and it was Anguirel... |
Hmmm....Mablung or Melian seem the obvious choices here.....actually what about evicting Finduilas? I know that means Turin gets to avoid some grief once he leaves Doriath, but as the challenge is to make his time actually *in* Doriath more difficult, presumably he'll be a bit more miserable without his fan-girl.
|
How about Beleg Strongbow?
Or even Morwen. :eek: Remove her and he would get really antsy about leaving Doriath to save his sister. |
Well, I'm back!
Doh! We shouldn't have voted off Saeros!
Although, I am glad that we did, because I can't stand him. The principal candidates seem to have been identified. Melian: A moderating influence on Thingol. However, my impression is that he would still have looked favourably on Turin, given the opportunity, even without her counsel. Mablung and Beleg: Not the only Elves who were friendly to Turin in Doriath. Probably made his life there easier, but were more instrumental in providing him with help and friendship after he had left Doriath. Finduilas: Not sure how here removal will make his life more difficult while he is still in Doriath. Morwen and Nienna: Well we surely can't lose Nienna now, but I can see how the removal of Turin's mother would heighten his concern for his sister, and therefore his angst levels, while in Doriath. Morwen seems like a good candidate to me, although I expect Lalaith to oppose her removal. ;) As an alternative, I'd be happy to vote for whichever candidate would, by his or her removal, annoy Anguirel the most. :p Problem is, it's difficult to work up an argument for any of his favourites ... Unless, the eviction of someone like Curufin might be seen as removing a buffer against Morgoth's forces, thereby threatening the security of Doriath and making it less of a "safe haven" for Turin. Any thoughts on that from anyone? PS I am still mourning the loss of Huan. If only I had been around to stick up for him. How could you all vote off such a loyal, faithful and intelligent hound. :( |
Quote:
I see your reasoning Saucie but I would really, really prefer it if Morwen weren't thrown off. She's one of my favorite people... |
Quote:
What do you think about my fledgling reasoning on Curufin, then? Might that be a runner? |
My first thought was that Beleg would be the best target as he is proberbly the one closest too Turin, but removing him would spare Turin frome great sorrow later on.
I guess Saucepan Man is right about Morwen beeing sutabel. I would prefer to remove Morwen over Curufin any day, to tell you the truth: I am rathe annoyed with her. |
I still think Mablung would be a good choice. Or what about Brodda? If he doesn't marry Aerin, she can't succour Morwen and Nienor in secret, and that will worry Turin greatly.
I need my Unfinished Tales I think for more Narn detail...or is that not allowed? |
"what about Brodda? If he doesn't marry Aerin, she can't succour Morwen and Nienor in secret,"
============= Ah, Lalaith is tricksey. Brodda's an interesting surprise candidate (and about as unlikable as Saeros). |
Ah! Our beloved mod is back! Welcome!
As usual, SpM hits right at the core of the problem, and makes it so muck easier for the others. Morwen seems like a good alternative so far. I wouldn't hesitate to vote for Curufin. It's been my goal since the first post here, which I hope I made clear. But this time it seem a bit off the task. But still, if people vote for him I don't care about the task :) I will fight for Beleg Cuthalion though. He's one of my favourites and I'm not letting him go now! Besides, I don't see any point in doing that. Brodda might work too. After all, his an easterling nobody really cares about anyway... But wasn't the slaying of Brodda one of the big "sins" of Turin? He killed him and his guest because of his anger towards the spell of Glaurung and the way it had deluded him. Well, he's a good choice anyway. But I'd prefer choosing Morwen. Like Rune, I've never liked her. But of course we must consider Lalaith feelings. Is it just me or is Lalaith defending every woman?;) But if you, Saucepan Man, has a way to irritate ous dear mod, I'm definitely going to back you up. But it should be in a way that's beneficial for our task. |
Completely agreed. Anyone that votes for Beleg Strongbow (most noble of friends, most trusted of advisers) should be sumarily lynched.
Morwen sounds good. Curufin also sounds good. But, alas, that's only because he's Curufin. I don't know, if i was watching this on tv, i'd have thrown something through the screen, found a crudgle, and stalked out to find our mod. ;) just kidding of course. EDIT: on second thought, what we're really after is to find whoever makes Turin happy and send them to the Void, right? The person that made him happiest (while in Beleriand) was Nienna, was it not. Or was that his other sister? i can't remember. either way, im sure that she brightened his day, and id much rather see her go that morwen. |
Quote:
I think that there's mileage in my theory on Curufin. It seems that the remaining sons of Feanor are providing a bulwark against Morgoth's armies to the north. Take out one of them and the bulwark's weakened. It won't be too long before those very same armies are encamped right outside Doriath. And that's gotta be bad for Turin's state of well-being. So, partly for that reason, but mostly because he's Anguirel's favourite, I shall vote: ++CURUFIN :D Although I'm not holding much hope out for Morwen ... |
Quote:
As to the Anguire argument, well you just cannot argue agains that. . .l :D I still think Morwen would be the best choise. |
I would like to propose another theory about what would make his life more difficult, what if we were to remove from power the elf who addopts him as his own son? I say we remove KIng Thingol from power, that definately will make his life in Doriath much more difficult
++Thingol |
Quote:
But, as I said, it's mostly because I know Anguirel desperately wants Curufin to stay. The way I see it, Ang has had quite an easy time of coaxing the story to go the way that he wants it to go. Which makes it easy for him. I think that he will appreciate the challenge if we make it slightly more difficult. ;) Plus I don't like being "told" what to do. :D |
Quote:
But for some reason I find The Saucepan Man trust worthy! so therefore. . . ++Curufin |
Quote:
I'm not convinced about Curufin either. It seems a bit pointlessly mean. |
Sorry Lalaith :)
As for Curufin, I too see it as a bit useless in this task, but after all it's my arch-enemy Curufin we're talking about. And to make Ang suffer a bit sounds like a good plan ;) I fear we'll be punished for this, but it's worth it... ++Curufin And too prove I'm not only bandwaggoning read for example my first post (#25) , #33 and most important #63 Finally I get my chance! Feel the wrath of the Valarauka Anguirel! |
Allow me to defend poor little Curufin, now the youngest of the sons of Feanor...
Quote:
1. As mentioned a bove, Turin likes having lots of Orcs nearby to hunt 2. More importantly-the four Sons of Feanor are bulwarks no more. Himring and Thargelion have been abandoned after the Nirnaeth, and Himlad was destroyed after the Bragollach long ago, when Maglor's Gap also fell. The Sons of Feanor, "scattered like leaves", now wander landless in Ossiriand. They still have military power, but they have no possessions on land and are in no position to stop the advance of Morgoth's armies. Your "legit" argument thus invalidated, you are left with this- Quote:
Quote:
For myself, I agree that Thingol should be considered a strong candidate. A palace revolution destabilises childhoods like nothing else. Thingol was essentially kind and paternal to Turin, while Melian may leave with him, depriving Doriath of her Girdle. Dior or Beren might succeed, probably leading to some kind of edginess between the two lines of Men... ++THINGOL |
Anguirel is right of course. But it's hard to resist the temptation of voting out Curufin. The one thing that might hold me back is the fact that there's no honour in getting rid of him without a good reason. But on the other hand Ang can make sure we never get a good reason by deciding the tasks.
It would feel better to defeat Anguirel with own rules and the rules of the game. I'm not sure of what to do. If there's a good alternative presented with good reasoning behind, I'm prepared to switch from Curufin...for this time. I won't be happy to do so, but that could be the "right" thing to do :) I'll just wait and see what happens. I'd also like to hear what Saucepan Man has to say about this. If I'm right, this is the current status: Curufin: 3 Thingol: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Remember that this is a reality game show. Voting with the tasks in mind is fair enough. But it is also perfectly permissible for viewers to vote off those contestants that they dislike, regardless of the task at hand. That's mostly how reality game shows work. |
Quote:
|
++THINGOL
Without Thingol, poor Turin will have no father figure around or anyone take him to fencing matches. Surrounded by his mother, sister and Melian, he's going to wind up being dragged to performances by the Doriath Ballet Company. Hopefully, his angst level will be increased. Plus, we'll have a power vacuum in the palace. Nothing like some old fashioned struggle for leadership to cause turmoil. And I believe this takes the count to Curufin and Thingol tied at 3 votes each, so Ang should still be sufficently displeased. |
Time?
Or is this Day extra-long in order to give Curufin a better chance ...? :p ;) |
Garn. I'm now left with the choice of being either vindictive or teacher's pet. I might just abstain.
|
Double "lynching" at tie or what?
|
The Day will end at 7:30 pm GMT-in precisely five hours...
A final point. The Saucepan Man, in the Saucepan Man, made a point of stressing that dull characters had to go, and interesting characters had to go. This means that we are not judging evictees on morals, or even overmuch on usefulness-we are judging them, to a large degree, on fascination. Now-apart from the fact that his eviction would be completely irrelevant to the challenge at hand-Curufin simply cannot be called dull. He's cunning. He's a superb stage/screen villain of the old tradition. Remember Errol Flynn's ouevre, or even The Mask of Zorro? Remember the tradition of the cool, caustic, calculating aristocrat, second to none with the rapier (except the film's hero, naturally), equipped with by far the best one liners, with the cut-glass-posh English accent? Don't we secretly feel some sympathy for him, wish he could start to beat up the big, brawny, goody-goody hero occasionally? I know I do. He is Curufin. But Curufin is more than that. Curufin is the Talented Mr Ripley. Curufin the Crafty, Curufin who defied Elf mores to entrap Nargothrond in his cautious power-hungry speeches, Curufin who dared to carry off Little Miss Prissy-I-Can-Defeat-The-Forces-Of-Evil-By-Singing Luthien. Curufin is the mastermind, the wit, a vital part of what makes the drama of the Silmarillion succeed. That is why I believe he will be a real loss. That is why I exhort you to listen to other sources than a piece of sentient yet spiteful kitchenware. Vote Thingol! PS Yes, Gothmog, both will go if there's a tie... |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:44 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.