I'm thinking of a Benjamin Franklin saying when I mentioned humiliation: "It is perfectly acceptable to humiliate people in private, they might even thank you for it later. However, when you do it in public they tend to think you are serious." ;) Love Mr. BF.

You have a good head on your shoulders. Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well.:)

Nogrod, you ready to post Lithor's trial next? ;)

Well, I didn't... :p But it was clear lord Athanar would not wish to draw her there into any discussions. What he (and Wynflaed) would do with Aedre would be their personal decision - and a private one.

So it was not a question of a trial in a democratic society where impartial judges weigh all the parties to the row and then try to find a just verdict but - as Groin said - a show. But a show put up for a reason. If the bodily integrity of someone belonging to the lord's family is violated, there is no lord who could just leave the matter be. Such offences must be somehow dealt with in public.

Heh, I think if Athanar would be "an ironfisted" leader (as Groin so nicely puts it) he would just have announced the sentence after the breakfast, and it probably wouldn't have been such a considerate one either. :)


And as we're on our way to Lithor's hearing I'd like to point to the same issue. I don't think a medieval / Middle-Earthish / feudal eorl would have to consult anyone - or even hear anyone - when he makes decisions on disciplinary issues concerning his subordinates. So I think lord Athanar is showing some real consideration and goodwill letting Lithor speak publicly in the first place - and letting what he (and especially Thornden) says affect his judgement. That's why I have tried to use the word "hearing" all the time.

Okay. The mini-novel called Lithor's hearing will be posted soonish...

Why, thank you, sir! I'm glad I did not offend. :D

Yeah, that's how I see it. I figure that if someone hit the president's daughter in a schoolyard fight there would be more to-do than if the same bully had hit someone else's daughter. Of course, vastly different situation and rulers and courts and stuff, but still...that's where I'm coming from.

Right. I think that if I were writing an eorl it would be much different. :D I'm glad Nogrod is writing Athanar. He's turning out fairly nice-ish.

-- Foley

Alright, I'll bite my tongue.... absolute power corrupts absolutely!:D

Okay! It's finally there!

Three cheers to you Foley and Groin (and Lommy)! It was so much fun to write that together!


PS. Did you know Groin that that quote of yours concerning absolute power corrupting is by lord Acton? A fitting title in this context. :D

Indeed, Groin, that is why you should never give me absolute power in a character because I would soooo take advantage of that proverb...if it can be called a proverb. My power-holding character would be so corrupted.

Groin: good to see you posting but I have a few questions for you...

The next one is from the thread and I think there is something quite odd there. Now who's talking / thinking and where - I mean the underlined part?

Secondly I'd think that Balvir (48y.), a sergeant of Gondor, would understand where lord Athanar is coming from and act accordingly - even if he wishes to be nice with / is a friend of Lithor.

Thirdly; have you thought of those peasants you wrote in a few days ago? I think there are no such figures around and the few comments here have confirmed it. It's always nasty to ask someone to remove something from the story but sorry, there are no such peasants around - and no outside camp-fires etc.


On a general note: I'm happy in general to see people have adopted new NPC's / side-characters from the ranks of the newcomers. That's good and something I'd warmly recommend to anyone.

But it seems you have only picked up some jerks and idiots... Looking at Groin's last post about those non-existent peasants brings the vision of PJ in the movie of the Prancing Pony to mind, like all Breelanders were baddies or half-wits...

Now lord Athanar, if he had peasants following him (which he doesn't), would have kicked that kind of guys off a long time ago. In that kind of society a lord is the one who has the chance to choose and will mercilessly leave the dim-wits or aggressors to suffer on their own and only bear with good people.

I can understand Athanar has some problematic characters around for the sake of storyline interests, like Aforglaed; he could be a son of a fellow lord or something, or a promising youth in arms even if a bit "teen" for his manners, or something like that. Also I think Athanar could stretch for Scyrr if he is an exceptionally good soldier - actually I don't see any other reason why he would have Scyrr among his ranks (he seems to be a kind of a guy lord Athanar would have gotten rid off in the first possible moment) - so beware anyone of you if you wish to try him with your character, he's going to beat you all as he still hangs around... :rolleyes:

So what I'm kind of missing are the "good guys"... :)

Lord Athanar is a high lord of the eorlingas, trusted by king Eomer, a war hero and a renowned leader from the Pelennor Fields. So his soldiers are not the lowest of the mob but among the best there is in whole Rohan. We can have one or two specialities to make twists to the storyline (like Aforglaed or Scyrr) but the overwhelming majority of them should be something like "on the level of Thornden" - if that helps you gain the picture.

So hero-characters available! Finders' keepers'! :D

The young and a bit insecure Baldwic (son of Baldwin) and the firmer & older Feargall come to mind... (see http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=614847) and others can be come up with.


Anyway, let's go forwards! Soonish...


How are your timetables, "Bostonmooters" & "Praguemooters"? Should we make a general pause for a few days or how are your scheduals?

Thornden's so much your general 'good guy' that I really don't want to take on another. Saeryn is also pretty much understanding and Javan's my only outlet of 'fun'. ;) So I will continue my passive position on this and not take any more characters....though maybe it would be a good thing if I created a sort of NPC.
That would be fun. Then I wouldn't have to keep writing him, but I'd be able to develop him enough for others to use...hm hoom. Good thoughts. Thanks for the nudge, Nogrod.

I might post something in the near future, especially if I plan to form a 'good' NPC. I guess Thornden will need to go to the drill, too, so I could always post for him. But I don't know exactly what is happening, and as Thornden is not in charge, I feel no particular urge to figure out/decide what IS going to happen. So I may wait on writing a post for him...maybe until Dury or whoever is actually in charge (Legate?) writes a post or posts something here.

K, I've babbled on about very little for too long. Byea.

-- Foley

EDIT: P.S. I remembered something just now and decided I could take the opportunity and be one of those bratty little teacher's pet people who raises hand after the teacher scolds the class and says something to the effect of, "I've done it right, Miss Prism" with an innocent little face...

I did create a respectful NPC in a post long ago, who addressed Saeryn when Saeryn discovered Lord Athanar's horse in Flithaf's stall. Saeryn demanded what horse is this, and the soldier stood up from grooming his horse, stepped forward slightly, and politely responded. So, see, we do have some nice people involved. ;)

I'll do my best to post today to start off with the soldiers.

What does everyone have in mind for these 'exercises'?

A good, long march; weapons drills...?

And what I've been wondering and keep forgetting to ask about is if these soldiers are foot-soldiers or cavalry, or mounted foot soldiers. I'm guessing at least the latter, because this is Rohan. Every soldier knows how to enter battle on a horse. So maybe they can do riding drills.

Think I'm going to have to do a little bit of research, hehe.

Though I know we don't have to have specific, technical detail or anything. I understand how to fudge things... :D

Uh oh. Question? Doesn’t sound good.

Lithor is thinking aloud. I did not introduce any other characters, besides Erbrand, so I thought it would be obvious (ergo, the reference to Lithor being lost in thought). Sorry.

Uh… those peasants who don't exist are Girth and Hamrod. Sorry, I thought they existed, obviously not. :o The other “peasants” are the inhabitants of Scarburg listed in the post. Possibly one or two NPC characters as well, but that was not my intention.

As for the campfires and the kettles, that is a traditional Medieval/Dark Age way of eating (after all, Tolkien did model Rohan after the Anglo-Saxon culture). The kettle contains vegetables, roots, meats, and is constantly being added to as the days progressed, never depleting, never overflowing. The term “potluck” is derived from this eating style. I thought this fitted the bleakest time of the year (winter) well, I guess not. Peasant life wasn’t not exactly a bundle of roses. Ow! Thorns!



First you blow one of my funnest characters out of the water, possibly ruining his chances from here on, and now you call my NEW characters jerks and idiots!? Yes, that large fellow holding the sausage in my post was Girth. What do you expect a man with a name like his to be holding, granola bars? Sounds to me as if Nogrod have some prejudices against peasants. Girth and Hamrod might not be as witty as some characters but they are mine and I love them. *sniff*


Soldiers, how can you compare those buffoons to peasants? Peasants have way more class. And now you are corrupting Aforglaed. He is not supposed to be a baddy!

Is that a burn? I think that was a burn. Ohhhh! Your gonna get yours.


Cold, Nogrod, really cold.


He also beats up on peasants in his spare time.

Just look at their freshly pressed golden hair. More perfume peasant boy.

Yes, we get the picture: clone Thornden and beat up pig farmers!

In other words, pig farmers are far from heroic and Hamrod doesn’t meet your approval as NPC. Hmmph!


Foley! Not you too!

All kidding aside, I'll edit my post. :D

Groin, you're mad, aren't you? As in cranky, angry, frustrated, etcetra and so forth.

I didn't think Girth as an NPC. I knew he was good.

Sort of. Those comments were the result of a slap happy moment that I could not refuse to pass by. I'm mad nowadays period. See ya'll in a couple weeks, I'm going back to the real world to get cool down.

P.S. Use my characters all that you need to.

What's that mean, Groin? How long until you're back? What do you mean, 'back to the real world' and 'you may use my characters'. Where are you going?

Well it's up to you Dury & Foley how you would make of it... Maybe some excercises with riding-in-formations and changing them, some games like the jousting in the middle-ages eg. riding against a dummy that swirls around; or wrestling, sword-fights (with wooden swords preferably), tactical manouvers (how to fight in different scenarios, like one against two, two against three etc.). So like basic practise - but aiming at the same time to unite the soldiers.

Your call!

And yes Dury, they're cavalry and most of their exercises should be on horseback, but they should also practise fighting on the ground as well.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I'll send you a PM for this. I mean I really don't understand this but hopefully we can settle this...

I have nothing against peasants... but lord Athanar has no peasants to follow him! He's not into peasants as he is a nobleman and to him peasants are just labour - but labour outside his immediate surroundings. Peasants are to him like income... far away and hopefully obidient - and if not obedient, then they will be settled with soldiers...

Lord Athanar may think they're just scum - and looking at the characters you've introduced Groin, he seems to be about right with his judgement about peasants... :)

What I know of lord Athanar, he would never have looked at that kind of people for more than a week: they would have been thrown off immediately their character was found out. So as much as you might love them, lord Athanar would not have loved that kind of guys and would have kicked them off with no pain of heart - if he had peasants in his "crew" in the first place, which he doesn't. ;)


Really: lord Eodwine's Hall had no peasants in it and lord Athanar is not introducing ones either... I mean why would he? He would subordinate the peasants from the surrounding areas and that would be just enough for him. The peasants = food. No need to keep them near or about; just collect the revenue... like lord Eodwine would have done! :rolleyes:

Now I'm alarmed...

Seriously, though, a place in the retinue of a nobleman, particularly one as important as Lord Athanar, would be an enviable position. No one with anything less than excellent credentials or character. Really, Aforglaed is toeing the line as to acceptable soldiers - he would have to be the son of a close friend of Athanar's (or Wynflaed's, I suppose).

Speaking of which, how *does* Girth fit in? I never quite understood how/why he was here. Not that I don't think he should be here - his perspective could potentially be very interesting, like Nain's - but what is the reasoning behind his character? Just wondering, because it wasn't clear to me before.

I know a host of you are in Boston right now - and a few are in Prague. And I grant you have better things to do right now but to post into Scarburg Mead Hall.

But could you give a hint or two as to when you'd be home again and able & willing to write? We have now basically everything open and we're set to go. So whenever you wish... And anyone not in Boston or Prague, feel free to jump on it! :)

Week from Sunday. Well, soon after that, anyway. But I'll be home a week from Sunday.

I think I thought of something to write last night, so today I hope to have time to write it. Harrah!

-- Foley

Well, I have spent some time in the real world (actually read Tolkien books again) and I decide that I like it too much to return to the land of the dead. I hope that you will forgive me if I write one last post to sum up my characters. I could not resist giving them happy endings. :) All but Lithor and Erbrand—that story is up in the air if they are caught or not—however, that is up to ya’ll. Although the soldier’s are going to drill, I could not resist having Erbrand have one more brawl before he leaves. Sorry if I beat him up too much, but that can be ignored if you wish. I won’t be here to criticize it. ;)

This tale has been fun to weave and I am sure that it will continue to be fun, despite my absence. I’ll be praying for every one of ya’ll, pray for me.

Goodbye,
~Groin Redbeard

:eek:

Seconded.

:eek:

Oh my...:eek:

There's really not much more to say...

What on earth? :eek:

OMG


Okay. I feel both blame and being insulted at the same time. I'll send Groin a PM tomorrow (it's late today and I need to go to sleep).


But what I want to say publicly here is this.


We needed to remake the Mead Hall. There was no way we should have entered a lord similar to lord Eodwine into his place as lmp got out. To write a story one needs tensions and challenges. Who wishes to write about a normal life going fine as it has used to go? And don't get me wrong; the main feat of the Mead Hall has been the relations between people rather than achieving a goal or putting up a fight. And that's what's made me a fan of this. But this thread really needed some poking; to get the different characters to react to new conditions...

So I came up with lord Athanar who is different from lord Eodwine but still a good man, a staunch defender of Rohan, a true eorling war-hero, a part of the nobility of Rohan... And I wished to see how the characters of you old writers would learn to appreciate him - and surely how "the original Mead-Hallers" would change him and those who came with him!


Well, it seemingly crashed with Groin at least. And so early!

I'm very sad to see that - it was to be seen for some time though - but I never thought it was that serious. And as I say I do blame myself for it for being the introducer of that character he seemingly never got used to and decided to take it that way. But then again... my complaints I will leave for his eyes only, for now on. We'll see if we need to come back on them. Hopefully not.

Which doesn't mean I'd not love him back. On the contrary.

He has been a great writer of this Hall and I'll do whatever I can to get him back here - but to be dishonest with him.

Nogrod, don't blame yourself. If Groin never writes back to you, at least allow me to tell you that it wasn't due to you that he left. I already sent him a PM, and from what he replied, it didn't sound like he was upset with you at all. I think he's above that sort of behavior.

I suggest we carry on...with his last post he left a lot of fuel to add to our fire. Scyrr is pretty badly beat up, but it doesn't look like he's dead. Lithor has run as well, and Athanar is not bound to be happy. Looks like fun. :D

Alright, I worked on a post yesterday and I think today I'll be able to get it up. I have writer's block, apparently, which is why I'm having so much difficulty getting a post up. But today I mean to add something to the thread.

Please, everyone else, don't let Groin's sudden departure stop you from writing! I know a lot of our players are gone at the Bostonmoot, but those of you who are still here - Loslote, Mnymosyne - PLEASE write something.

-- Foley

Whoa.

...

What!??!

Seriously, what on earth just happened?

I just read Groin's last couple of posts over on the story thread and they took me somewhat by surprise.

Roughly this: Groin left. He wrote out his characters and departed, apparently for good. No explanation has been left except, from what I can gather, that he did not like the amount of time he was spending on the BD and therefore he left.

Yes, I was surprised, too. Mostly by the last one. :eek:

So...how are we to carry on? I didn't get my post written today as I had thought I would. I don't know if I'll have time this evening. I will work on it, though, and get it up as soon as possible. Due to the nature of the thing, it looks like I can't keep it as short as I would generally like, I hope you'll all forgive the length when it finally comes.

But apart from my post, what are all the rest of you going to do? I seriously hope this has not put a damper on things.

-- Foley

Get the drill going... all characters who are soldiers can do that as I think no one has the expertise to say what that would be. :)

So don't wait for Thornden or Coenred to start it - even if I think you Dury and Foley should start it if others don't...

Riding in different formations, dummy fights (on horseback or on foot), archery on horseback, swordplay, wrestling, running, creeping / crawling... whatever you come by.

Your choice. And really do not be afraid to start depicting that! Someone just open it with anything that comes to your mind - and the relations between the soldiers surely are the issue there... how can they drill together and how well they appreciate each other - not which tasks they will perform or which excercises they make!

Seek for your fellow-writers. The Bostonmoot & the Praguemoot are drawing to a close so peope should start being available in a few days... But making a beginning would be great.


Others might start with the reactions to the decisions of lord Athanar - or about the general mood. Or whatever a new day would bring for them...

Lord Athanar might wish to see the craftsmen but we're in no hurry about that. Anything more urgent someone of you would come up with him would surpass my interest for him, but if no one calls him (*coughSaerynDegascough*), he's good to go with the craftsmen.


Aedre, Wynflaed, Lilige? What are they thinking about all this?

I'm still too benumbed by Groin's Epic Post of Epic to figure out what to do... plus Wynflaed's been (and indeed has wanted to be) a passive player in the recent council. I'll reread things tonight and see if I can put up anything tomorrow, but for now I have a hunk of work to get done that has been put off too long.

I totally second that. I think I'll sleep on it, see if I come up with any strokes of genius. If not...well, let's see what I can think of before I start with lame posts that say "Lilige is confused and thinks herself superior to those silly locals!" There must be something better, and I'll post when I think of it.

Nogrod, I fully intend to post the beginning of the drills....the problem is that I started writing my post at home last night and then forgot to copy and paste and send it to myself to where I am currently. :( So...I'm back at square one, for the third time, with this post.

I need to run out and do chores now. I'll try posting later...again....I don't think I've ever had this much difficulty getting a single post on a thread!

-- Foley

I have a suggestion to everyone concerning Groin's last post.

Let us for a short while (well, a few days "RL reckoning" at least) write about things that are not related to what Groin wrote.

The drill can be depicted without Lithor. One just doesn't mention him there (and Erbrand wouldn't have been there anyway as he's a craftsman). Also those wishing to post for the others don't need to pay any notice to what Groin wrote. What he depicts happens in the marshes and it only involves Ginna and Frodides - and Lhuna & Kath have not been around for a while anyway (if you guys come around it is of course your right to decide whether your characteres were there or not). So we can write whatever we wish as no one yet knows what has happened down the marshes - and as we the writers can't be yet sure about what the final result will be.

If Groin is reasonable he will edit the last posts of his a bit and I'd be good with that. I'm not especially crying after Scyld to be honest as I think he was not a man fit to lord Athanar's troops in the first place. So good riddance. But if he's not, then I'm afraid we need to ask for Pio to do some editing. I'd rather see Groin doing it himself but we'll see.

But there are lots of things to do meanwhile...

And let's hope Groin can be made to change his mind about leaving.

Good suggestion, Nogrod. He took the time forward quite a bit in the morning, so I think we can afford doing that.

But I'm curious about what you want changed in his posts? About Scyld being killed? I kind of think that he's not actually dead but Erbrand thought he was...? I don't know. I'd like to see him live.

-- Foley

I wish to discuss that with him first before talking about it openly. But as I said, I have no problems with Scyld gone as he is kind of an odd person to be in lord Athanar's troops in the first place (for how I see lord Athanar he would never had hired such a person - we can of course explain it afterwards like that he was a new recruit who had managed to fool Athanar by playing a more professional and morally straight person). But whatever. That I think is not an issue.

I think it all depends on whether Groin wishes to continue writing this and then wants to take something back - or if he'd live with the consequences (which is hard to see as for manslaughter - or even for an attempt of it - Erbrand would be sent to Edoras to court and so out from the Scarburg anyway - and Lithor would be a deserter and that would probably be handled at Edoras as well...). Other issues, I think, are mendable and small in comparison to Groin's own decisions.

I finally got a post up, but it is still incomplete...at least, it's not as complete as I would like it to be. But time presses on me again, and I know not when I'll be able to write again, so I wanted to get it up, in case I do not have a chance before tomorrow. It at least starts the ball rolling...maybe...

-- Foley

Okay, I've posted again...sorry...got a rush, I guess.

I have left an obvious opening for Athanar. I have also made it possible for Degas to be posted for. Also, in my first post, it is clear for any soldier to post, especially Coenred.

I think that's all I'll post for this evening. :) Looking forward to action again on this game.

-- Foley

Man, I need to work harder at making Crabannan interact with other people. My introspection groove turned into a rut a while back, I think.

Yeah, Crabannan does need to interact. :) The introverted posts are interesting, but I imagine you can only do so many of those before you burn out. I think it'd be fun if he and Javan started to get to know each other! :D I'm open and ready whenever you are.

-- Foley