As for times, I am flexible, because I'm sure my big mouth will finish me off early. Yet again, I guess Sauce and Mormegil are in this one. I could live to day three!

I don't things REALLY matter to me one way or another.

Re: the Werebear:

I'd prefer none, if only to enhance the chances of my survival, and to decrease the chances of being anything other than an innocent ordo. But it's the mod's call.

Which means that if Menel doesn't want a Werebear, then too bad if I'm the only Ordo who agrees with him!

:p

Form's idea of an apprentice could easily counter the werebear, see last game...

Just to let you all know, the 4:30 start time means I probably won't be able to get online until the end of the day. Talk about suspicious. :D I can probably be on about 12:00 - 4:00 at intervals. Rarely, I may be able to come on in the early morning.

Ditto to what TGWBS said, at least when it comes to voting. I'll only have about half an hour in afternoons.

Okay, I'm going to change the beginning/end time to 5:00 EST/10:00 GMT/3:00 Mountain time. I'm not planning on changing it any more, as it would probably be a little late for those in Europe. Indeed, it probably is already quite late for dancing spawn now. Sorry about that, as I'm trying to do what I can to make it convenient for as many people as possible.

Same times as my game then...

Works for me.

But really, there's always going to be SOMEONE put out by the times. Best to stick with what YOU find best, since you're the one for whom that time of day is going to become the most plugged up thanks to Werewolf.

Hmmm, 5pm Eastern Time? That should be fine for me except for Tuesdays and Thursdays starting next week. So, if I post an early vote on Monday and Wednesday, that would be why. As for me playing, by the looks of things, it's a go. So, definetly count me in Menel and I've already given my occupation on the previous page I believe.

Hey, of course, don't worry about that. :) I'll just vote a few hours before the deadline then, and disapper for quite a while after the beginning of a Day.

About the Bear: I'd rather have a Cursed than a Bear if there's need to make the villagers' job more difficult.

Re:
 

1000Z? That's 1800L . . . yeah. Perfect . . . http://www.geocities.com/louis_martian/smilies/evil.gif

May I ask what day the game is scheduled for? The 500pm est works way better for me! :)

Just to let you all know, I will be unable to post at all except in the afternoon-evening (Gametime). I might sneak in some Morning posts on the weekend.

So long as these times are pm that looks great Menel. We still starting Thursday?

Yes, we are starting Thursday (even though my activity today was cancelled, I'm staying with Thursday anyway). Roles will be PMed sometime before the game begins then, maybe tonight. If not tonight, I'll PM them tomorrow afternoon, a few hours before the game begins.

I imagine you will start with a night phase so the wolves can at least get some time to communicate and introduce themselves.

Also, I assume you will but want to make sure, will you put up the final start and stop times, rules etc... on the opening post of the new thread.

A simple reminder to all playing in this game is to be invisible as well.

You may rest assured, morm, that I will do all those things. I still have a little homework to do, but I will probably be able to PM your roles to you within 2 hours of now. If not, you'll get theo a couple hours before the game starts tomorrow.

Note: Randomly determining roles with a 20-sided die is not time consuming. PMing them is.

Nilpaurion Felagund, please clear your PMs so I can send you your role.

Everyone, please turn invisible if you have not already done so.

All roles have been sent. Nilp, your role is in the latest reputation I've given you as your PMs were full.

Re:
 

Hehe, thanks for the rep, Menel. :p

Hmmm . . . so it's 10:00pm GMT, 2200Z. 0600L. *shrug* Oh, well, just like the previous game.

i wonder if i can make it too at least day 3 without being lynched or killed by werewolves... haven't so far

just to state here, i was unable to get to a computer yesterday to vote so sorry for that, and hopefully i'll be able to vote tonight...

Just a note. I won't be around much until the weekend because of school. I'll try and come on as much as I can, but that's not going to happen as much as I would like.

I just got my computer back today. Didn't get everything reinstalled and a virus scan done till after the deadline. Sorry. I'll be on tomorrow and will be more talkative and also vote. :)

I'll make it official here:

I will return two hours before the deadline. Not before. This is quite unusual for me so I thought I'd inform you - I have a swordfighting workshop and the final rehearsals for a show tomorrow and will not be able to touch a computer all day. I'm very sorry.

Kath has informed me that she will not be able to post on Day 5 due to a trip she is taking.

Does that mean I am allowed to PM from beyond the grave? I think you just made a mistake - but hey - you never know. :o

Also, due to the same trip I am only going to be able to post within the next hour or so, and so will have to vote extremely early. Apologies.

woah, this is the first time i've survived to day 4...

This should be known to prevent my being lynched this weekend.

I spend most weekends with my aunt. Yes, she has a computer, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to use it excessively, as she's got AOL. I'm also working during the weekend (as opposed to goofing off during the week) so my hours are especially strange. I will be on to vote when necessary, but it will be completely irregular and it's possible that I won't make other posts during the Day.

I apologize for my absence, and I hope it will not jeopardize my chances of survival.

I'm letting everyone know that I will not be on until (probably) about 7 hours before voting time as I will be leaving in about ten minutes.

I was recently asked a question about who would win if the Hunter and one wolf were the only survivors at the end of a game.

Suffice it to say that this scenario would be one in which the number of wolves equals the number of villagers, meaning the wolves would win.

But... but... the Hunter would kill the last wolf upon his or her death! So it would be a Moderator Wins scenario.

I've anticipated such an outcome for 17 games now. You can't take it away from me. :(

Ah, but take that to its logical conclusion and every game (or at least every game that allows double lynching) which ends with a single ordinary villager and a single wolf would result in a moderator win.

Let me explain.

Going into the last Night, there are two ordinary villagers and one wolf. Naturally, the wolf kills one of the innocents overnight, leaving one villager and one wolf on the final day. Both vote for each other and there is a double lynching, leaving the village empty and the mod victorious. If double lynchings are not permitted, the lynch victim (and therefore the victor) is chosen randomly.

But that doesn't happen because the rules specifically provide that, when the game ends with an equal number of innocents and wolves, the wolves are victorious. That rule applies, in my view, even if the sole remaining innocent is the Hunter.

And the rules also state that, when the Hunter is killed, he or she may choose one person to take to the grave with them. Hmm. I guess you have a point, my oft inebriated friend, seeing as we could consider it a wolvish victory is three wolves were left with three innocents, one the Hunter.

I suppose it will have to depend on the Moderator's opinion. If it were me, rest assured, Mod wins would be an option.

Wouldn't the math take care of such a scenario? For example:

2 wolves vs 1 hunter 1 innocent.

The two wolves kill the hunter first who takes a wolf with him, that leaves

1 wolf vs 1 innocent

I may be wrong, but I think this very thing happened in an early game...

But surely "Mod wins" is just another way of saying it's a draw. And draws are dull and to be avoided at all costs, imho.

Unless you are suggesting that the Mod is actually an active player in the game? I don't like the sound of that, as the Mod's imparitiality should be beyond question.

Yes - WWII, which I modded. The final day found the Hunter (BW) and an innocent (SoN) up against two Wolves (the phantom and dancing spawn). Although the innocent also happened to be the Cursed. One Wolf attacked the Cursed , who began to transform. The Hunter then shot the cursed ( :D ) and was savaged by the two Wolves. Wolf victory.

It could have been different - the Hunter and one Wolf could have cancelled each other out, leaving a Wolf v an innocent (albeit, in that case, the Cursed).

The position is slightly different where you have one Wolf and the Hunter at the end, though, as there is no second Wolf to survive the Hunter's attack. Still, my preferred option in that situation would be a Wolf win. Another possible rationale for this is that the Hunter is only permitted a kill when lynched by the villagers or attacked by the Wolves at Night - not when attacked by day by the sole surviving Wolf. Not entirely logical, I suppose, but it fits in with the general principle that an equal number of Wolves and villagers equals a Wolf victory.

Hmmmm....just looked more closely at the scenario imagined by Saucy with 1 wolf, 1 hunter and 1 innocent....that one is interesting...

In that case, wouldn't it be in the wolf's best interest NOT to kill anyone that Night?

If the wolf takes out the Hunter and dies, wolf loses.

If the wolf takes out the Hunter and the hunter kills the innocent, wolf wins.

If the wolf takes out the innocent, then next day double lynching and wolf loses.

So, only 1 in 3 chance of winning the game. But if the wolf lays low that Night then the next day:

Hunter gets lynched, wolf wins.

Innocent gets lynched, wolf wins.

wolf gets lynched, wolf loses.

So there's a 2 in 3 chance of victory by NOT acting in the NIGHT. All of which leads me to ask two questions:

1) can wolves choose NOT to hunt in a given night? and

2) how much longer can I hold out before playing in another game?

True. I had forgotten that the Wolf would know that there was a Hunter about. Applying the rule that 1 Wolf v 1 Hunter = Wolf victory, though, the Wolf would have a 2 in 3 chance of victory either way.

Well, the Hunter can, so why not the Wolves. The situations in which that would be a useful tactic, however, are very limited. I would leave that one up to the Mod.

3) why bother holding out? ;)

Because I want to keep a life for myself outside the Downs for a while.

Uh oh....EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGHHH...Chat Skwerels!!