I was actually talking about Nessa's vote on Legate, not Fea's on me– but the same thing applies.

EDIT:X'd since Il Fenriso Lupo at #156.

About the current candidates- I am willing to try Lommy, and possibly Green. Given my lack of experience with them I have no thoughts on Manwe or Nessa, but given the format (the fact that everyone gets to keep playing) I don't feel at all bad about lynching them in order to save someone I feel better about.

You're right Boromir, and what you say needs to be said; but it kind of has been said. Perhaps more volume won't go amiss. As I suggested, I think the dead Thread's getting a lot of concentration as an idea because it's new, shiny, and mysterious, a bit more interesting than the turgid if important business, often unrewarding, of hunting a wolf on Day One. But we seem to have let it distract us overmuch. My fault among others.

Mith, as far as I know I'm not scrapping with Fea, I just disagree with the reasoning of her vote. Or rather, I think its real reasoning is exhaustion, which means it's sort of lost sight of Slaying Enemies...

I definitely understand this and totally agree that worrying about the dead thread should not be our concern....at this time. It will, if it comes down to it closer to the end, take more precendence as the game progresses and have a bigger impact then. Here's the scenario I have playing in my head

Down to four villagers and three Wolves. All the Wolves band together to kill one of the four villagers, the extra two votes kick in (lets say for a Wolf), thus killing a Wolf (if xe has two votes at this point), revealing who the other two Wolves are. Village wins.

That's the LAST CASE SCENARIO. Why all the talk about worrying who's in the dead thread now and what kind of impact it will have now (excluding if one of the Gifteds were to die). Really, it should be those who are alive later in the game who worry about it then. At least that's my understanding of the thread, because at this stage of the game, whether we come to Day 2 with 18 or 19 players, those two votes won't go a very long way. They will help, most definitely, but they will not have final impact.

X'ed with phantom (x2), Nerwen and Ang

But it doesn't matter if they're innocent or not. If this turns into a giant Shasta vs. Nog fight (anyone remember Roa? :p ) then either way, there won't be much productive reasoning going on.

Now, I'll have to vote and run, so, for his rather worrisome post...

++Mänwe

EDIT: xed since Nerwen

My case is here, and stems from this Lommy quote-

I'm kind of leery of Nog's 3 votes, because usually he's a tough nut to lynch early on. And really I'm not even aware, to steal words from Glirdan, "adamantly" went after Nog and to steal words from Legate launched a "crusade" against pessimism.

What I said was an instant reaction I had regarding Nog's post. Then Agan said if Nog had continued the banter, I'd probably say he wasn't being the normal Nog, so I explained more. Those two seem to be making too much out of my suspicions. They were serious suspicions and feelings about Nog, but I wasn't aware I was aggressively attacking him?

And buggers, I'm missing a new episode of The Tudors. In my heart of hearts, dramatic history beats WW, even with such excellent and more admirable company.

So...

++Legate

Okay, I remember that and I see your reasoning and find that it has its merits. One problem I see with it is right here:

My only problem with this is the fact that there are so many people that are Cobblerish at this point in the game and that she actually has no real suspects. Her vote was more or less a throwaway.

I do, however agree with everything else and wouldn't mind seeing Lommy lynched myself. Her vote is what's really getting me. She only had three votes, votes for Manwe, gives and explanation but the explanation pretty much said "Look at me, I'm a throw away vote in disguise"

Aye, I might have repeated what others said, simply because I basically stopped reading much of the thread in my cloud of confusion if I was actually understanding this whole thing properly.

Oh I only meant her correction of Earendilion genealogy. I am so not with it I have refreshed the previous page about 5 times thinking that it had gone all quiet.... living or dead I am voting early in future....but in a bit of a dilemma what to do is it a bandwagon if you vote for someone with better reason than the person who cast the original vote..?

Okay, I'm making my vote now

++Lommy

Out of all the candidates up there, I would rather see either her or Manwe go. Out of the two, I choose Lommy for my reasons stated in my analysis post #145 of her. To do a quick recap: don't like here wishy-washy feeling, don't like her vote. Most of her posts have been banterish, time for that was long gone when she voted.

You know, we do have this little custom of explaining why we vote someone, Boro.

EDIT:X'd since Boro.

I'm pleased with this particular alternative to lynching Nogrod, Manwe - pretty much the one I was after. I am struck by the actual paucity of evidence against him but that's pretty hard to avoid right now.

I suppse this is where the "useful ghost" argument does attract some currency - given I've seen Nogrod is more vocal and detailed, and I've no damning suspicion on either him or Manwe, why shouldn't I prefer him in Mandos? The answer is shoddy, negative, and pusillanimous but I will admit it. The Shasta - Nogrod affair looked way too familiar for comfort.

(It's just occurred to me, in that unsettling suddden way that these things do, that if they're both wolves, well, they're doing well)

In contrast Manwe adopted a silent assassin position throughout much of today, then ended up joining the fray in a tone of preemptive snapping that reminded me of lupine false confidence I've seen before. He's much more likely to be wrong than right, but he feels the best I have to go on and less inevitably innocent than Nogrod. Have we been faced immediately with the classic dichotomy: a useful ghost or a lurking wolf? If so I have to stick to my stated tack, by choosing the latter.

++ MANWE

(also the Feanorian in me smirks at the idea of lynching one who bears the name of that smug Vala!)

So, it's Manwe and Nog tied at 3 votes each?

Okay, then, that simplifies things–

++Manwe.

Voting-

Lommy ++ Manwe
Legate ++ Nessa
Green ++ Lommy
Shasta ++ Nog
Agan ++ Nog (2)
Shasta ++ Shasta
Manwe ++ Green
Daughter ++ Nog (3)
Nessa ++ Legate
Fea ++ Nerwen
Lottie ++ Manwe (2)
Boro ++ Legate (2)
Glirdan ++ Lommy (2)
Ang ++ Manwe (3)
Nerwen ++ Manwe (4)
Ha ha ha! That's almost enough to win me over! :D

(EDIT: x-post Nerwen, adding in her vote)

Who is still left to vote?

Suppose in the cause of residual sanity shouldn't risk a threeway tie and vote for the rather shifty Legate - especially since the other 2 voted flimsily..gah..jus tnoticed that Lommy has made very few posts. Has she had a personality change since I last played? Is that the new normal?

Left to vote:

phantom
Mith
Wilwa
BG
Sally

I still want to kill Lommy if we have the votes to do it.

A threeway tie would have the advantage of bringing out the flawless patented Anguirel-Aganzir plan, but the second of those inventors thinks its suicide and the first one just thinks it would be very funny...

No triple lynch please, as Nog is one of the few I feel I have a bead on at this point.

Bleh... Not sure what to do here.... What are you doing, Mith? You know my feelings quite well.

Just as you please, lord phantom...isn't that a beautiful full moon? Tilion at his finest, eh...?

Lommy did say she had a busy day and I don'tlike his trumped up "case" against me. Nothing better to go with for today.

++Manwe

(PS Mith.... grrrrr.....)

After a long day of discussion, most of which centered on whether a fit burial for the horses would include sage or rosemary, the group got down to the nasty business of trying to eliminate one of the possessed among
them.

For a while, it seemed as though Nogrod and Mänwe would both have the honor of going first to Mandos, but Nerwen cast her vote for the latter "to simplify things", and Phantom agreed.

The elves circled around the Mänwe, swords glinting in the setting sun...

And nope, not gonna tell you his role. :P

The living:

Shasta
Nogrod
Aganzir
Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
Wilwa
Legate
Lommy
Nessa
Blind Guardian
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel
Fea

The dead:
Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe

Shh, Mith! It is now Night 2. People who have stuff to do, do stuff.

Yes And I considered going with them, but to go against conscience is neither right nor safe..

Dawn brought no particularly interesting revelation to the miserable elven host: as expected, one of their number had been brutally mauled, his innards draped around the camp like holiday garlands (if holiday garlands existed at the time), his head missing - it was found, later, in a nearby stream - and his bizarre clothing strewn about, torn, and covered with wolf hair. He was barely recognizable as Shasta, and certainly no one could tell whether he had been possessed, gifted, or just odd.

The elves dragged what was left of their comrade to the stream and sent it on its way, bowed their heads momentarily in mourning, and then set about the business of killing someone else.

The living:

Nogrod
Aganzir
Glirdan
A Little Green
elronds_daughter
Nerwen
Loslote
Wilwa
Legate
Lommy
Nessa
Blind Guardian
satansaloser2005
the phantom
Boromir88
Mithalwen
Anguirel
Fea

The dead:
Macalaure
Rikae
Mänwe
Shasta

Day 2 has begun. You may post.

Oh dear, oh dear. Poor Shasta.

I still don't know quite what to make of yesterDay. Manwe's been killed, for reasons beyond me. That whole Shasta vs. Nog thing was troublesome, and probably why Shasta got dead. Makes me worry about Nog. And phantom is a bother at the back of my brain. Something seems off about him, despite his sense-making. Or maybe that's just him. So many people in this game that I haven't played with before...this makes for an uncomfortable lack of predictability.

Arghh. This is so much shorter than I originally intended. I meant to go back through everything and look an analyze a bit...but that requires logic, which requires sleep. Which I think I shall do now. Back eventually...do be productive while I'm gone, will you? :D

Well, too bad. I can only assume the kill was due to Shasta appearing to be innocent to several people? And before anyone even goes there, it doesn't make Nog look bad and I don't even think the baddies intended the kill as a frame-up.

That would be just ridiculous, requiring us to believe that as a Seer Shasta would've acted the way he did upon finding a guilty Nogrod, which makes no sense at all given the set-up of this game. There are far too many of us that know Shasta to fall for that, and I can't see any way that the baddies would think that would fly.

So basically I think he was killed because he looked innocent and there was an off chance he was a Lover or Glorfy. Because really would there be any clues to that? Why would there be?

Commentary on yesterday to come....

(x-post Daughter)

Just a fun fact- if I were the Wolves I would've just killed the people I thought were most likely to peek at the Dead Thread, as that would be the most obvious way the Goodies could gain a nice upper hand in this thread. Yeah- I'm not very trusting.

(That's NOT a shot at Shasta's honor! Just a thought that I had earlier today.)

First, some thoughts I jotted down during my reread of yesterday.

The following were definitely doing some gameplay yesterday (if you know what I mean)-
Anguirel
Nogrod
Boromir

At this time I'm leaning solidly towards Ang and Nog as good-guys and Boro as a baddie.

In general the other players seemed to be doing less purposeful manipulation, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to get vibes from them.

In my readthrough I didn't feel so bad about that lynch from yesterday, but I guess maybe we'll learn about that soon enough. Fea is good. So is Shasta (but that's rather an obvious conclusion now). I don't feel good about Mith, and possibly Nessa, but I don't have experience with her so I'm not certain. I still don't like Lommy, and possibly Greenie, but my feeling on her is somewhat based upon Lommy.

I'm very very curious about Agan. She seems to be extremely locked in, and yet it didn't seem to me that she was invested in the game. Sort of like a robot playing, you know? I never felt for a second she was up to anything at all good or bad. It was weird. Has anyone ever seen her like that?

Other people I'm mostly undecided on. And now I'm going to do a vote analysis and see if anyone looks good or bad based upon that.

Are you hinting something about yourself phantom????

To be honest, I'm kind of quite surprised by yesterDay's lynch. Manwe was an all too easy bandwaggon lynch and was lynched with no reason other then his bantering....well, from what I remember anyways, I'll have to go back and read his posts and the ones concerning him.

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with you on this. After all, we have no role revealment to prove to us that Shasta was a Gifted, Cobbler or Ordo and thus have no idea in knowing where his loyalties were lying when they got into the debacle. For that, I think we should still keep Nog on our radars.

I will be around for a little while longer, but then have to go to bed as I work in the morning.

Lommy ++ Manwe
Legate ++ Nessa
Green ++ Lommy
Shasta ++ Nog
Agan ++ Nog (2)
Shasta ++ Shasta
Manwe ++ Green
Daughter ++ Nog (3)
Nessa ++ Legate
Fea ++ Nerwen
Lottie ++ Manwe (2)
Boro ++ Legate (2)
Glirdan ++ Lommy (2)
Ang ++ Manwe (3)
Nerwen ++ Manwe (4)
Mith ++ Legate (3)
Phantom ++ Manwe (5)

Well, that's yesterday's voting. Given the fact that we do not know Manwe's affiliation, it's extremely difficult to speculate. If he's evil than obviously Nerwen and Ang look quite good. If he's innocent and Nog, Legate, or Lommy is guilty, then Nerwen and Ang don't look good. If none of the lead candidates were Wolves then votes could be hidden anywhere.

Meh. I don't like not knowing roles after death. Makes things difficult.

Why becasue I wouldn't do what you told me to? Well if that is the case get used to it. Few things annoy me more in this context is being told how to vote especially if they haven't committed themselves. Don't trust you enough yet to let myself be so maniputlated so get used to not feeling good or put your money where your mouth is. Don't seee how your feeling constitutes evidence unles we are doing divination by the examination of entrails and there are enough of those around already. Grr yourself.

Ha ha, no, I haven't read the Dead Thread. By habit I clicked on it when Rikae first put it up, but I stopped reading immediately when I read the opening lines, which said something along the lines of "If you're alive stop reading now!"

In talking before the game I mentioned that it would be a great temptation for me given that I would feel certain that other people were reading it and thus gaining an advantage against me, but I gave my word not to read it, and so I won't. :)
I don't follow your point. The Wolves knew Shasta wasn't a Wolf, and that's all they can know. What I'm saying is that they'd have no reason whatsoever to assume he was the Seer that spotted an evil Nog, because given this game set up do you think for a minute that he would've behaved so had that been the case? They killed him for some other reason. Now, you might perhaps say that it might've entered into their minds, "Ooo, maybe the village will go for Nog as a side-effect", but I doubt that they'd be that deluded.

:(:(:( First Dobbin and now– my priceless treasure! Why?

Hmmn. We know even less about Manwe's role and yet you're quite ready to call him an "easy bandwaggon lynch". Do you see the contradiction?

EDIT:X'd with phantom.

My "grrr" at you Mith and my bad feeling about you is due to the fact that you waited so long to vote for reasons unknown, and up until then you had given little indication as to which way you were going. If you were purposefully trying to cause an accidental multiple lynch that's precisely the way to get it done.

I was extremely irritated because as the deadline ticked closer I was getting very worried that you'd force me to miss the deadline or cross-vote with you and another person who hadn't voted yet and cause a massive pile-up.

You don't have to vote the way I want you to. I don't care- go your own way. That's fine. But when we're in the final minutes and you're not telling me who you won't vote for and who you might vote for I sort of assume that you're hoping for a crash.