I don't think that we necessarily need to have a default request system in place early as long as we give the dead sensible options which are adhered to and not changed midstream. Spending too much time now exploring various permutations really would be an unnecessary displacement activity at this point.
Don't want to end up like this again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA |
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My concern was, whether the "evil side" could have killed Morsul last Night if there was no wolf turned already on the pre-game Night (whether there was not a wolf among us on D1)? Aka. if the EW didn't turn anyone into a wolf before D1 started, could she have turned someone into a wolf last Night and then have Morsul killed the very same Night she turned her first wolf into being? Looking at it from the other POV. If there would be no wolf now, then no-one would have died last Night because there a) is no wolf to do the killing, and b) the EW has not turned anyone a wolf aka. (by rules) can't kill anyone solo either? So it concerns the speculation about whehter there was a wolf among us yesterDay, not whether the EW killed her puppy just to send her into the Dead-thread (which would be quite insane - or phantomish)... :rolleyes: |
As far as the Dead Thread communication goes, I think it is better to have a consistent plan than it is to try to wing it. Sure, something may go wrong, but that can be addressed by putting in a failsafe - say, empower the first or last people alphabetically if something has gone terribly wrong, and we can work out a new plan to draw out what, exactly, has gone wrong the next Day. If we don't have a plan at all, getting any information from the Dead Thread becomes much more difficult, and the possibility of confusion increases drastically. I am honestly side-eying Nog for, as far as I can tell, dismissing the idea of *having a plan at all*. Sure, it can get messy, but if we don't have a solid plan, communication would be almost impossible. I'm less wary of Mith, who doesn't like the plan but is suggesting alternatives rather than effectively saying "communicating with the Dead Thread is hard, we shouldn't even try". All but one of us is in the living thread *right now*, now is the time to hash this out, when everyone can make sure they're comfortable with the plan in the case that they are the ones who end up in the Dead Thread.
As far as Morsul goes, I wonder if the EW killed him in part as a way to shield the rest of the last minute voters from scrutiny. Morsul was one of the earlier and more bold voters, and by focusing attention on his vote, maybe the EW was hoping to draw our attention away from a vote like Zil's for Nerwen, or the votes for me, or even the votes for Boro meant to tie it up. At any rate, I think we, as a village, haven't spent much time looking at those, and I do want to take a closer look. |
The important thing as I recall was to limit the questions so that the dead had a multiple choice of votes to allow for their special knowledge. We don't want to mess up lynching a wolf to know x in the dead thread was an ordo.
And a get out clause if the living don't know what they are asking for. Working out all possible permutations seems a bit unnecessary at this point. I would have to look back but I think it did work most of the time apart from the day 3 or four people posted their preferred options very late. |
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x/d with Mith |
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This assumes the Dead reveal the roles in order of arrival, but I think that's reasonable, and if they have to depart from the plan, they can use the failsafe and wait for a Visitor to deliver the more complicated message. |
I was intending to break a tie. But I'll take the rest to the grave with me.
I'm here for the rest of the day. Reading, catching up and I guess I'll go from there and see if today brings any changes. Good to see everyone here and some healthy participation. |
In theory, maybe the EW didn't create a wolf N1. So, D1 there was no wolf and the EW was just trying to get a lynch/small chance to expose the GW/gifted. What would be the advantage to create a wolf N1, other than create a small chance of possibly losing the wolf in a lucky D1 lynch? If by creating a wolf N2, the EW then gets to make a kill on N2, I'd definitely wait until N2 until creating a wolf. If I were the EW, just to get the joy of seeing a completely fruitless D1 lynch, because there would be no wolf to lynch.
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Leeroy, I'm starting to sympathize. :D Quote:
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And yes, I know the baddies could have asked Kuru themselves, but I don't think it likely.
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I only have another couple of hours before I'm going to have to vote and sign off for the Day. Not good, when so many haven't been around.
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Ok, commenting as I read through.
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edit:x-ed since Lottie's #171 |
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Edit: x'd with Eonwe. |
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I do wish more of the village would show up.
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Absolutely secure innocent-lynch (unless lynched herself) on D1 and still a possibility to kill someone on N2 when recruiting her first wolf only on the very same N2 would be a no-brainer for the EW. Kuru's answer was not to this question. He answered to a question (which I at least didn't intend to ask), whether the EW could Nightkill the same wolf she turns into a wolf the same Night. It is a totally different question and not one that would help us determining whether there was a wolf around on D1 - aka. whether reading yesterday's voting fex. is totally worth zero or worth at least a try. Another quick point - just as a remainder - the Dead might not see as the most beneficial course of action to be the "messenger boys and girls" who make insecure attempts at telling the living who someone (of lesser consequence by game terms) was or is if they can for example lynch a baddie with their vote - or point to a known villain with it. The Dead know who is important to know for the living - the Living only shoot in the dark - well not necessarily in the first Days but later the difference becomes remarkable - and at least later on the Living should not think they are the ones on the driving seat because they are the blind ones while the Dead are not. *Goes back to read more* |
*Boro grabs an apple out of his pack. Sits down. Watches this interesting back-and-forth between Inzil and Nerwen*
*Ponders...was it a slip? An innocent assumption? On first appearance, Inzil looks like he's trying to back away from it and pass it off as an innocent joke.* "Appearances are deceiving though" Boro whispers to another participant and offering a bit of the apple. |
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EDIT: xed with Boro |
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So given that the EW does have a disposable wolf (that could actually be useful to them lynched on D1), I can't see why they wouldn't pick one on N1 for that reason alone. I believe we still haven't found out from Kuru whether or not the EW can make their first wolf and pick a kill on the same Night, but even they can, there is a greater risk on N2 of the EW picking an unwolfable person (the GW and their pickee) and therefore not being able to make a kill - on N1, there is a 2/16 = 1/8 chance of hitting an unwolfable, while by N2 this could potentially be raised to 3/15 = 1/5. edit: x-ed since my last post. |
First off, I'm a bit puzzled by the choice of Morsul. It does lead tracks to Lottie, but that seems like a hasty conclusion - especially in a game with no seer. I'm sorry but my first idea of "why Morsul" is because in the last dead thread game he was (at least from my pov) majorly confusing the communication between the living and the dead, so maybe the baddies are wishing for a reprise. :p Or maybe they just wanted an entertaining start to the dead thread. :cool:
Also the vote yesterDay was a bit of a fiasco. I'm looking at Boro especially, who has continued being very shady toDay. Would it make any sense for the EW to act cobblerish and try to make people not take him seriously???? :D Now, off to do a classic read-and-comment post! edit: xed with Eoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeo |
*Surfacing back before reading all of toDay just to bring forth an idea*
How about this? We the Living consider the votes of the Dead as a kind of advice of an older sibling or parent - they know more but are not infallible. And we should probably do this in an increasing scale of trust that there is a point in who they want to help lynch. Like toDay (with no-one lynched on D1) there will only be Morsul voting there and he doesn't know anything more than we do - so we'll consider his vote as his suggestion, with the already statistical probability that he is more likely an innocent one, who could be as far off as anyone of us could be. I'd say D3 is the most problematic and we should take anything coming from there with a pinch of salt - but yet most probably it would be an assessment of some fellow-villagers. After that the dead should have settled their game with five or more people in and the goodies should have the upper hand (even if that is in no way a safe bet) - and the more Days go by, the clearer view they will have of the situation and the more we should listen to them in regards to whom they try to get lynched with their vote. This kind of attitude wouldn't lessen the fun of people playing in the Dead thread neither lessen the need of the Living to consider thoroughly what to do with the suggestions the Dead are making. And really: if the EW decides then to try and crowd the Dead thread, she'll soon fall short of baddies to use (she's only allowed 4 in total and only 3 at a time) and then quite inevitably lose by numbers here in the Living thread as well... EDIT: Managed to X with at least Lommmy & Eönwe |
Okay, decided to clarify my point in another short post as I truly realized the point with all (most?) of it's ramifications myself just thinking about it again.
The problem in the Dead thread is that they only know approximately half of the people. With two people entering there (on average) per one D/N -cycle and them being able to check only one in the same time-frame, there's going to be some confusion at least in the beginning (they'll know only half for sure). But like I said, the good side should eventually come to grips with that. Thus we shouldn't take anything they say as a fact or a strict rule (X is innocent, Y is a wolf) even if we had very smart systems to make that kind of questions to them. But we should increasingly trust their evaluation of the situation as a more informed fellow-villager's (party-guest's) advice. And like I said, the EW wouldn't want to throw all her gang into the Dead thread as then it would be a game over immediately when the Duel takes place. She needs numbers in the Living thread to make the game continue... *Ok. back now* PS. Has anyone or is anyone going to make a look at the voting yesterDay? With the assumption that here was a wolf there already on D1 (most probable I'd say) and how fishy the voting looked there just could be a chance there was some foul play involved - at least chance enough to merit a check. I'll look at it soon - unless someone is doing it already right now. |
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ToDay, I face a similar situation in that I'm going to have to vote fairly soon. I thought her jumping in my 'slip' had a pouncing feel to it. And like I said, a lot of people haven't been around much, if at all. As for my 'prolonging the conversation' about the Dead Thread, it took two (or more) to tango. If it was thought I was trying to waste time or distract, people could have ignored me. x/d with Nog |
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++Nerwen |
I am feeling better about Nog after his more recent posts, and worse about Zil, who has seemed more defensive than I would have expected. His suspicion of Nerwen also feels strange - it's too insistent for the justification of "she feels off and would be good in the Dead Thread if guilty", which I think is all he has thus far offered. That, plus he didn't like how she jumped on a possible slip, which I thought seemed like an innocent spotting what really did look like a possible slip. I wouldn't mind voting for Zil toDay.
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And the answer is more or less. While "everything" is assumed to have happened during a NIGHT phase, this does also implicitly create an order in which things occur. For example, Ranger Pick effectively has to come first in order for the skill to be used at all, then Evil actions, and so on and so forth. And I'm afraid that is as much of an answer as I can give to Nog's question too. The answer to that question is baked into the geography of the game. I know it may be frustrating and seem like I don't understand the question, but I could not possibly answer that particular question. It is part of the game. The most definitive statement I can make is that the game is still going on right now. The Party has not won. Everyone can make of that what they will. |
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I mean this goes exactly into the book "a Wolf or EW would not act so boldly, except if they wanted us to think just that". Maybe a straight question, then - do you still want to be lynched or not? Quote:
Zil - according to what you linked, yesterDay you said you voted Nerwen because she felt more "guarded" than usual, is that still valid? Because now you said that you are voting her based on her jump on you, but these are two different things. Just seems to me like purposefully going after one suspect (which a Wolf could do to seem "consistent"). Also, all this talk about Dead thread is all fine and dandy, but I would too prefer to vote early-ish toDay and I think we can still specify any exact rules for communicating with the Dead thread toMorrow, when it will (presumably) finally be relevant. (Although then again, as early as possible. Because we don't want to end up with leaving the Dead with no directions until two minutes before DL. At least there won't be a host of them yet, so they will probably be able to react more flexibly.) EDIT: x-ed since Zil's vote |
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That makes one think indeed... :smokin: When there is not a clear-cut answer, something is tricksy. :eek: Without any major light bulbs immediately flashing over my head I'll pull back to reading how D1 went, but this sure is interesting indeed. We need to thinks about this as well. |
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