Just a comment: off the top of my head, I can't remember a wolf playing the "I don't know the rules" card. It seems to be more of a hypothetical ploy than a real one– or is it something wolves used to do, before my time?

I can remember one who really did have no idea what was going on or what Day it was (and yes, she was considered innocent because of it).

Yes, and that's why I think in the future it might be a good idea to modfire for doing it, for it seems to be odd that we would reward a Werewolf for being wilfully ignorant of the rules and not dedicating time to the village.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I have made a case against Nerwen. Not all in one post, granted, but I've said things about her here and there, before she started suspecting me, so it's not like I just suddenly put her on my suspicion list.

As for Brinn, yes, my apologies, I haven't explained myself. I will get around to it, but alas not tonight. It just can't happen. My next....*counts*....about 18 hours will be hectic, so depending on how long I'm at work I'll be around to post more specific thoughts on Brinn before the deadline.


And for now, I must be off. Out for dinner with a friend and working on my paper while we're waiting for our yummy pizza. Yay foods! *shifty eyes*

About those who didn't show/vote on Day 1, while I can't say anything about these specific players, I can say that there have been werewolves who didn't show/vote the first Day...so it doesn't necessarily mean innocence. After all, no shows often happen due to RL and that can't be helped whether your innocent or a werewolf. As for Nerwen, her stating that she forgot there was a ranger doesn't necessarily mean that she had to bluff to be a wolf. Even as a wolf, she could've honestly forgotten about it. The only one I could totally eliminate as a ww is Gil who hasn't shown up at all. And Kath looks more innocent because unless she didn't get the Nightly PMs, I don't see how she could miss Legate's death without bluffing (and I don't think she would).

The quotes/comments I saw that make Lommy look more innocent were among those long quote posts...I actually did make comments about them right after posting the quote if you read them.

What a meanie, you always want me dead. :p And you're right you always suspect me, and I often suspect you....I do think it's because we just don't agree on each other's posting styles.
As much as you don't like quote posts, I made them because it's easier for me to see all the information right there rather than search through 30-something pages. I made comments afterward...I don't know how much longer you want those comments to be. Is there some sort of standard you have? I'm not Nogrod or Legate...who both make posts long enough to write a book. ;)

First off, you were awful eager for a triple lynch...for someone who I think is probably innocent. We already bagged three wolves...what's the rush to lynch another player who is most likely not even a wolf? Secondly, you were so eager to lynch the two wolves you went to the effort of devising a way so that all reps would be involved rather than use the original plan to abstain, which would've worked fine. You seemed much more eager than everyone else, and if you're a wolf, using eagerness could be a way to compensate for your frustrations. Plus, if you were one of the reps actively lynching the wolves, you could've thought it could be a way to distance yourself from them. Did that answer your question?

This is probably the last thing I'm going to be able to post tonight, so,

++Brinn for rep

Even though Brinn was on my initial list of suspicious people, she's doing a lot, a lot of analysis that makes sense to me, and I don't think that a lone wolf right on the heels of a double-lynch would go to that much effort.

Sally, all I can recollect is that you echoed morm's suspicion of me. Now, a number of people– including a known innocent– agreed with his points on me at the time– but you're the only one who still heavily suspects me now that we know morm was a wolf. Logically, you can only be sincere about this if you think there's a case for it being a wolf-on-wolf ploy. Therefore you must state this case.

In the meantime, I'll vote

++Lommy for rep

EDIT: X'd since Sally at #1563.

I'd like to see Green as a Rep.

++Green for Rep

Yup. You're still wrong, but now I know what you mean. Thanks for clarifying, sweetie. :)

Oho! Now we're cooking with gas.


++Greenie for rep


Laptop battery's dying, but quickly before I go. Yes, I know she was going to vote Phantom last time I chose her as a rep, but given the circumstances I felt I could trust her more than the other candidates available. Same thing toDay.

Blast! Have to go! Back later!


ETA: Nerwen, I'll respond to you later. Don't worry. I'll go back and quote my posts, if nothing else, because I don't know if I'll have much time, but I'll do my best. Until then! *scurries*

I was going to vote Lommy, but she already has two votes, and I don't know if I really care to give her a third.

I could vote Nerwen...while I'm not sure of her innocence, I'm not exactly terribly suspicious of her since two wolves suspected her quite heavily, and one voted for her at a time where she was at risk of getting lynched.

I noticed tp voted Greenie. She's one I might be interested in voting for...a lot that she says I happen to agree with.

EDIT: X-ed with Sally

Okay then:

++Nerwen for rep

As it seems my other favoured reps have gone through. And I think Nerwen will do a fine job as my rep. She's made some good points toDay as well.

Okay- here's the same thoughts as last time with new people added below.

Gil- Would he no show with a role? Doubt it.
Kath- She claimed to not know the Rep rules during Day 1 (she thought only Reps could post the second half). Would a KathWolf bluff something RL like that? Though I don't like that she posted on Day 2 and claimed that she hadn't even read the thread far enough to know if she was even alive and supposed to be posting. Wouldn't an Ordo check and see if they had been Wolf-killed before they posted?
Nerwen- Her failure to cast a Day 1 vote and the fact that she claimed not to know the rules makes her look fairly clean. I mean- she thought there was a Ranger. Would a NerWolf bluff something like that?
Rune- He showed up late and acted like he didn't know we had started. Would a RuneWolf bluff something RL like that?
Gwath- He thought on Day 1 that he could vote himself to be a Rep. Would a GwathWolf bluff that sort of thing?
Lommy- Her suspicions have been good and bad, and mostly understandable. The only time I've seen her as a WW though is when I was her partner, so I wasn't trying to read her. But her reactions to things have been pretty good in my opinion. Oh, and her KA vote- a non-Wolf flag, or a WW trying to remove herself from suspicion?
Green- When she argues with people and takes offense and whatnot, it seems genuine. I like her lists, and choosing morm two days in a row- surely as a WW she'd be scared to do that. Anyway, she should definitely get a free pass through today because of her birthday.
Ilya- Good reactions in general. I like the way she states suspicions. But then it's weird that Nog voted for her. Or was he perhaps trying to win her over?
Sally- I'm having trouble with her because I met her last weekend, and the whole "don't discuss the game outside the thread" rule was difficult to stick to. I found myself automatically trying to read her, and yet trying not to. I think it's carried over in that now any feeling I have on her- I'm worried I'm drawing part of it from RL.
Brin- I get bad vibes from her sometimes, or is it just her style? Sometimes she came across as suspicious of too many people, but none of them enough so, if that makes sense. Her after-the-fact reaction to KA getting votes (before she was lynched) was rather innocent though, or very well crafted at least. And all the info she's posting- very nice. But is she banking on it to win her points in our minds?

Anyway, I've got a huge week to get ready for. I should be popping in and out during the final seven hours tomorrow, so you'll see me then.

.....oh no, I missed the deadline again. Drat. I wasn't even doing anything important. I was watching TV in the other room. I apologize.

Not much has taken place since I left last night, I was convinced I would have to read through at least 2 pages.

Anyways I am around for some hours, but I have a paper to write and quite a bit of stuff that needs tending to, so it might be a while before I put together a post.

Hello everyone, I'm around, will be posting something substantial soonish.. So I'm a rep again? And here I was hoping for a peaceful evening.. :rolleyes:

A tentative moddess...
 

Sorry Fea has asked us to hold the fort for a little longer. Just so I know I am on the right track, I make the voting for rep to be as below (growls slightly at sally who quoted highlighted votes making it harder to count the blighters :p ).

Nerwen (Brin, Lommie)
Greenie (sally, phantom)
Lommie (Nerwen, Kath)
Brinniel (Ilya)
Kath (Rune. greenie)

So Nerwen, Greenie, Lommie and Kath are all reps with equal power (2 votes each) - do you concur?

Since no one has done this yet... Our reps for toDay are:
Nerwen (2 - Lommy, Brinniel)
Kath (2 - Greenie, Rune)
Lommy (2 - Nerwen, Kath)
Greenie (2 - the phantom, Sally)

Ilya voted for Brinn. Gil (surprise surprise) and Gwathie didn't vote.

I have nothing to complain about since the reps are the three I considered voting and myself. :)

List coming up...


EDIT: x-ed with the lovely modgoddess Mith who looks to have done the same thing as I.. :p

I WOULDN'T LYNCH TODAY:
Brinniel - Still nothing new.
Gil-Galad - Kath raised a good point about him: he wouldn't have made the Night kill since he doesn't appear at all during the Day.. Or at least, if he does that I'm going to strangle him personally.
Greenie - Well obviously.
Lommy - Still the one who seems the most innocentish this far.
Kath - Seems innocentish and has good points I think a wolf would not raise.
Nerwen - Seems innocentish as well.
Rune - The same with him. I have no reason to suspect he's a wolf. Especially his voting twice for morm seems like something a wolf wouldn't do.
the phantom - Obvious again.

I COULD BE PERSUADED TO LYNCH TODAY:
Gwathagor - I wouldn't be surprised if he was the last wolf, though he isn't necessarily my top suspect. Does not seem innocentish but not especially wolvish either.
Ilya - I'm still very torn about her. She keeps sending both innocent and wolvish vibes and I can't decide between them.. Leaning suspicious.
Sally - She's the one I'm most uneasy with. No, not because of the double-lynch thingy. Her posts toDay have seemed overall fishy. I'll have a better look at her soon and try to get some concrete examples.

Any ideas of our lynch my fellow reps, and others too?

I know that you did comment on some of the quotes, but we are talking about 1 comment for every 3 quotes or something like that and there is little conclution connected to them.

I would be very happy indeed if you at one point only chose the quotes you needed for your post, the way you do things now just seem very mechanic. Also I belive that we need to be a bit selective about what we bring forth, as a bombardment of unnecessary information will just mean that we cannot see the forrest for the trees.

I do see how your posts can be a practical tool for some people, but to me it just seems like you are trying to win people over by doing alot of work and very little analysing.

EDIT: Cross Posted with Green

Looking at Sally...
This seems very diplomatic, especially considering that it's his first mention of her in the game. His later mentions of her could go either way and nothing special popped out.
I think it's interesting how Ka here ignores the possibility of Sally being both busy and wolf.. I can't decide whether it's intentional or not. Hmmm...

Overall, looking at the wolves' quotes, I think it's interesting how little they talk about Sally in general. No, those two quotes above are not the only ones, of course, they are just two that caught my eye, but the wolves do speak of her quite little... (Of course this might be just due to reading the posts with the assumption that Sally is guilty.)
This exchange I find very interesting. Sally's tone is disturbing me, I can't phrase it any clearer, but that passage is the one that worries me most. It's sort of apologetic.. no, that's not quite the word, my English sucks today it seems. Whatever. As for Nerwen's reply, it's a very good point and I think Sally should answer it - of course she might well have other reasons for suspecting Nerwen, but yeah. I'd like to hear them.

Hmmm. The material I looked at (ie. Brinn's quotes & Sally's posts toDay) didn't provide me with as much clarity as I would have wished. Sally's status remains "leaning suspicious".

Anyone around?

I just had a look at most Gwath's posts (exept the very first) and the vast majority is simply one-liners or very very short, of course that need not be bad. The problem is that Gwath seems always to be defending him self or commenting on something, but never comes up with a suspicion. . .exept of course when he did not like Eonwe's list of suspects.

There is of course things that points to his innocents, especially the fact that he thought he could vote for him self. . . The wolves would probably have talked about voting, but who is to say if they talked about the technicalitys of voting? I think it is plausible they only discussed if they should vote for each other or not.

EDIT: Cross posted with En Lille Grøn (En Smule Grøn?)

I move that if he turns out to be a wolf we strangle the moddesses too– because that would be totally unfair.

Agreed, although don't forget that her failure to spend the first two Days trying to lynch Nogrod is pretty darned unusual.;)

He's posted so rarely that I can't really remember what he's said. I'd like to gather all his posts together, Brinniel-style. (I know Kath has summarised his posts, but I don't like relying on someone else's version.) I need to get some sleep now, though.

This is much my own impression... however, if Wolf #4 is Ilya, she's playing an awfully cool hand (paw?) under the circumstances.

What I want to see is whether she really can put together any kind of case against me– that is, I want some idea of whether she believes what she's saying.

About the triple-lynch business– it wasn't just the fact that she suggested the triple-lynch, it was the way she led up to it, too:

[Note: Posts are not quoted in full]

#1264 [replying to tp, who asked if anyone could see a flaw in his plan]
#1267 [when asked what the "flaw" was]
Comment: if she's a wolf, this could be an attempt to stall and undermine confidence.

Then she backtracks:

#1270
Then she comes up with her famous triple-lynch proposal:

#1297
So... suddenly the "flaw" is the fact that the plan doesn't allow triple-lynching?

I find this to be quite a suspicious little sequence.

However, I also think I've been concentrating far too much on Sally. I need to look at other people more.

EDIT: X'd with Rune and Greenie.

I only find that it was the first of those 3 quotes that was odd, the others seem to fit together just fine and I don't find wanting a triple lynch overly suspicious.

Maybe it is just because people always frown upon the slightest mention of multiple lynches that I find it odd that a wolf would sugest such a thing, it would certainly attract unwanted attention.

I know within the long post I didn't give much comment, but I dedicated a separate post providing my thoughts on all the players after those posts, based on the quotes. And that's still not enough?

Then that would defeat the whole purpose of gathering info about who said what about one another. This is something I did more for me than anything...to prevent myself from tearing out my hair in frustration as I sift through 1500 posts each time I want to find a certain quote. :rolleyes:

If I was a wolf, would I have said this:

right after the reps had just decided to lynch her?

Alright-y, I'm here too, finally.

A wolf could very well be genuinely confused about rep rules on Day1. I find that far more probable than that a wolf would be genuinely confused about ranger rules on Day2.

Nerwen always fails to vote on Day1, whatever her role. ;)

I think sally seems a bit too apologetic, nervous and nice. If she's the last wolf that's understandble as there's quite a lot of pressure on her. On the other hand, she has said she's really stressed and that may affect her behaviour, so her nervousness doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's funny, I don't suspect Rune at all, even though I have absolutely no reason to trust him. He baffles me a little by differing in his opinions from the rest of the village. That's nicely refreshing. (But... I'm wondering - do I recall correctly that that has been the trademark of a wolvish Rune actually? Hmmm... I have to keep an eye on him.) I can't really bring myself to distrust Brinn either... I guess it's just gut-feeling, then. And as for Nerwen, I feel my non-suspicion of her is just a bit more reasonable.

The others I suspect to some degree. Sally the most. Greenie seems kind of genuine, but I can so very well see her as a bold wolf. Rune's suspicion of Gwath strikes me as misguided, I think Gwath is probably an ordo... but I probably think that just because he's flown completely under my radar. :rolleyes: I'm really unsure what to think of Kath and Ilya.

As for Gil, I think this pretty much sums it up:
Of course, the moddesses could just have picked his kill for him, but that would be totally unfair...

As for sally's eagerness to lynch Gil, it is indeed a bit weird. Why couldn't it have waited? The numbers favour us at the moment, so we could have afforded a double lynch, yes. But why make it if the subject is probably innocent? Why not wait and see a few Days? Like now Kath has provided us with a point that almost proves Gil's innocence. But an evil sally could have wanted to reduce the number of the innocents, for now that she has been left alone, she will have to walk a rocky path to win. Also, although she explained it, her enthusiasm to take part in the lynch of morm and Nog looks a bit questionable indeed... I don't think it's a bad idea to lynch her toDay, as we have plenty of Days to try. And honestly, I think if we don't lynch sally sooner, she will become an enigma later.

I understand the sentiment perfectly, but I think an innocent sally could ("could", not "would") have voted me nevertheless, which in turn could have made me trust her more. This being like this, sally just strikes me as more nervous than before. Also, she could have simply said "Lommy will vote me and I don't want to die so I'll vote someone else" but now she masks it as "lynching me won't profit the village", which makes me raise eyebrows. Because, really, we can very well afford losing an ordo right now.

Oh, that's true. However, her PM inbox could just have been full so that she wouldn't have received the wolf PMs.... so we can't rule her out either.

Greenie was a bold wolf in her very first game, so I wouldn't put anything past her.


edit: xed with Gwath

Why is it we would want to lynch Gil in a few days?
It would not like having to wonder about him when we are under pressure, I would rather leave him be or get him out of the way at once.

I forgot to say that I will be leaving now. . .I am going to play some football with my father, but I will be back in a few hours.

I would think there would have been enough to think about in the double-lynch yesterDay. Also - granted, this did not occur to me either, so I can hardly blame sally for not thinking about it - it was wise to wait and see if there's a kill at all.

I can't see why not. :)

Nevertheless, at the moment I feel most comfortable with voting

++ lynch Sally

since she is my top suspect at the moment.

This is what we call awful politicians betraying their voters... :rolleyes: (Seriously though, I never promised not to try and lynch the ones who voted me as rep. Hah.)

But why would a wolf-sally want to get rid of Gil in particular? Wouldn't she be more likely to try to get rid of somebody more involved? Gil isn't a threat to anybody at this point.

He's a threat in numbers, one more innocent to get out of her way. Also, suggesting triple lynch with anybody else but Gil as the third lynchee would have been a so-called political suicide...

Because in that post I am associating myself with and practically defending someone who I (were I a wolf as you suggest) would have known would be revealed as a wolf upon her imminent lynching.

EDIT: Crossed with Thinlomien

So you think that she was possibly taking advantage of the situation to try to get rid of an innocent who is otherwise unlikely to be lynched? I guess that makes sense.

Yes. Or, getting rid of one innocent, and Gil was the only candidate whose lynch she could advocate without looking very suspicious herself.

Real quickly- I wouldn't be too concerned about Sally voicing a desire to lynch a likely innocent Gil. I've been tempted too. Think of this- what if we just leave him around and then we get down to the final day, when there are a total of three villagers left. In a normal game two Ordos can lynch one WW. But in this game, only Reps can lynch. Which means when there are only two Ordos the WW can just sit on his Rep vote and the game is over. So, Gil or not, our last chance will be the day before.

So if we subtract an innocent Gil, that would put the day before at one WW and three Ordos, which is just fine. So Gil doesn't help the tally at all. Keeping him around does not add an extra day of life to the village.

Maybe the wolf has thought that through already, and maybe not.

It doesn't make a lot of difference since I'm not a rep, but I'm most suspicious of Green, sally, and, to a lesser extent, Ilya.

Okay, I admit I didn't think it that far. You're right. :) So, sorry sally, but I still suspect you the most. ;)


edit: xed with Gwathensen