![]() |
Quote:
|
Begging the Obvious Question
From a related comment in another thread:
Quote:
|
The bad, the worse, and the ugly
Quote:
Now that Peter Jackson has to make a movie ostensibly about one particular hobbit -- and a confirmed bachelor at that -- he invents yet another elf-chick character to waste precious screen time that the schizoid Smeagol-Gollum could easily employ to memorable effect. If any character deserves an expanded role in these films, then the pathetic/treacherous Smeagol-Gollum does. I mean, face it, the elves have pretty much given up on Middle-earth. They mostly just want to leave. So I say, let them. At any rate, Bilbo Baggins and Smeagool-Gollum have more to do with the fate of Middle-earth than any elf-chick afterthought possibly could. These films should make that truth abundantly clear. Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
*One of these might be an invention on my part, however, everybody knows Legolas was thinking it at some point. |
I think that TMT has a good point about Gollum. That's one interesting character, with plenty ways to develop it more (although in LOTR PJ simply murdered it! :mad:). I think that he should get more attention than some Itaril-Tauriel blasphemy. Unless it's going to be an expanded version of that sequence where he decays alive as he turns into that colourless skeleton...
|
Murkwood Mary Sue -- Special Snowflake
Quote:
Murkwood Mary Sue's come backI give the elves credit for trying to write poetry, Tolkien's own favored means of literary expression. However, since I don't speak, read, or write Elvish dialects, I have to go with Bilbo Baggins as the hobbit Homer of Middle-earth. Naturally, none of this versification stuff has a chance in hell of making it into a Peter Jackson hack-and-slash action extravaganza. Now, if instead of Murkwood Mary Sue disemboweling orcs, wargs, and giant spiders, this Tauriel turned into an elegant, elvish Edna St. Vincent Millay, saying of the world's cruelty and injustice: I know.... then I could appreciate such truly feminine strength and character. Of course, Galadriel would deliver such lines with more authority than Murkwood Mary Sue, just returned from her morning kung-fu choreography training, but if this story absolutely has to have something quintessentially elvish going on in King Thranduil's household while Bilbo skulks about, unseen, looking for a way to free his dwarf companions, then I would not mind witnessing a timelessly young elvish wordsmith audibly composing trenchant verse in King Thranduil's library. I think an invisible Bilbo would find that experience both enchanting and edifying, as well. And then I woke up ... |
Quote:
Quote:
|
Strong Female/Hobbit Roles
Originally Posted by Rumil in another thread:
Quote:
I say these things because I once wanted to pay tribute to a strong woman who I consider one of my country's real heroes: a mother who had lost her son in Iraq who subsequently confronted the President of the United States from a position of enormous relative powerlessness but far greater moral authority. For inspiration, my first thoughts turned to Shakespeare's Measure for Measure, where Isabella pleads with a judge for her condemned brother's life. Then I thought of Macbeth and Hamlet in reference to the unequal struggle with bloody power figures. Then I thought of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, specifically "Riddles in the Dark" and "The Shadow of the Past," respectively. Then this happened: Metrics for MeasureSo, it appears that deep down in my own psyche, I associate strong women and hobbits, without the distracting violence and sexuality that attend more "modern" conceptions of "femininity" and "strength." Whether Tolkien intended that sort of subliminal association or not, I cannot say; but it seems to me that with the best qualities of hobbits to work with, Professor Tolkien did not require much in the way of overt female roles to communicate his major themes and issues. Just a few thoughts and verse stanzas on the subject ... |
I think some named Elven characters would be needed (yes, even in a hypothetical faithful version). I mean, Elves turn up quite a bit in the book, but are mostly referred to collectively : "they said this", and "they said that". That would probably not work in a film. So I've got no objection to PJ throwing in an Elf-maid named Tauriel– as long as she's a minor character, and not another version of "Itaril".
Here's hoping the change of name indicates a change of plan. Jackson has supposedly said she's not to be Leggy's love-interest, which reduces the Mary-Sue factor somewhat. On the other hand, there's speculation she's going to be Bard's love-interest... :rolleyes: Oh, and though in every reference to this new character on the net, she's "Tauriel, daughter of Mirkwood", the name doesn't, in fact, mean this at all. Wonder where that came from. |
Quote:
Thus Jackson, or someone, 'simplifies' it in this way: 'daughter of Mirkwood'. |
I suppose that it is so luxiouriously cast that even Raft elves and the hunting/feasting elves areliable ot be"names" and I suppose there is no great harm if the spokes rafte elf were female however I have no faith itwill be jsut that.
|
The Damsel and the Dragon
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
What about this Tauriel chick? I heard she's affiliated with Thranduil and/or Legolas...
|
The name Tauriel say to me The Lady of the Forest.....will she be Thranduil's wife?
Orome= Tauron= Lord of Forests/Forester. Galadriel= The Lady of the Tree. Any thoughts on this? |
Quote:
Galadriel=Lady Crowned/Garlanded with Light. Tauriel: taur=forset -iel=daughter Tauriel=Daughter of the Forest Why the speculations about Elvish, though? |
Well it's not the first time someone thought Galadriel's name was associated with trees...
Quote:
|
How does one say "wet t-shirt" in Elvish?
Quote:
In reality, though, given the transparent pandering to teeny-bopper/horny-adolescent consumer demographics, the name most likely means "actress with breasts from the television series Lost who mostly appears in tight-fitting jeans and a wet t-shirt." As for all the Tree-Worshipping stuff -- especially in Northern Europe -- I recommend Chapter IX from Sir James George Frazer's The Golden Bough (a Study in Magic and Religion): http://www.bartleby.com/196/17.html Personally, though, if I had to choose between gods in trees vs godesses in tight-fitting jeans and wet t-shirts, I'd choose, well, ... |
(I'm sure this was mentioned before, but I can't find where)
"Tauriel" - Daughter of the Forest - could have no other meaning than "The Daughter of the Mirkwood Forest". PJ and his simplifications. :rolleyes: I think it's better that PJ invented his own name, even if he used Tolkien' elvish. I can't help associating "Itaril" with Idril (wel, PJ took it from here), and I don't want to lose respect for her. :p |
Also Itaril is attested as the Quenya form of Idril, so while not impossible, shirly something Sindarin is better here.
Tauriel is not derived from a Mannish language, and fits Quenya in form and meaning as well as Grey elven... though again better thought of as Sindarin for an Elf of Taur-e-Ndaedelos. |
Quote:
Of course, this is to say nothing of what the actual character will be like, something about which we can only speculate. |
If such a person as Tauriel ever existed then it is by no means whatsoever that she would be Daughter of Mirkwood Forest. If she were related to Thranduil or his father Oropher she may well have been a Sindar and not Silvan, if so then she may have been a survivor of Doriath or come from Lorien, nothing can be taken for granted here........ if you are going to make things up then why not make her the sister of Amdir or Amroth.....Thranduils wife....Legolas's sister.... blah blah blah.. we know nothing of this elf other than she doesn't exist... the same as Lurtz didn't and Ugluk did.
|
Forest-daughter is an apt name for a female Elf who lives in a forest, whether Sindarin, Silvan, or Avarin. Just like L(a)egolas 'Green-leaves' is a good 'foresty' kind of name.
That said, Jackson's 'loose translation' and description (I think he refers to her as Silvan) points to her being one of the Tawarwaith of Mirkwood. |
Quote:
|
I fell in love with the "forest daughter",
And it took quite a while to get her. For she's more prolific than she ought'er With many an Elf for to bed her. And now I've had trouble passing water Ever since I met her. |
Quote:
In any case, I note Lúthien 'flower-daughter' according to Tolkien after The Lord of the Rings was published (before The Lord of the Rings was in print Tolkien imagined it meant 'enchantress' rather). Here -ien 'daughter' rather than -iel in Tinúviel 'twilight-daughter, nightingale' |
Elvish STDs
Quote:
Elvish STDs |
A Bug, not a Feature
RELEASE ONE of this “Itaril” idea crashed
And burned because the concept truly stank. Rebranded then as “Tauriel,” and unabashed, RELEASE TWO offered even less: a blank Generic name with nothing but the same rehashed 'Strong female role" -- or Mary Sue -- to thank. |
Legolas and Tauriel
Quote:
You-Know-Him You-Know-Her |
A Name by any other Name
If at first you can't sell Mary Sue as "itaril," change the spelling of her name to T-a-u-r-i-e-l and try again.
A Name by any other Name ... |
Oh, What if they don't like me?
Actress Evangeline Lily worries that Tolkien "purists" won't like her wet-T-shirt impression of an elf-chick security guard named Itaril/Tauriel (or, whatever) who just so happens to have no place in the story that Tolkien wrote. Speaking only for my impure self, I'd say she has good cause to feel that way. I had almost forgotten her, but If she makes one more public announcement reminding me of her needless and pointless presence in The Hobbit, I may have to write another scatological poem in her dishonor. ...
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...r-hobbit-role/ |
Thanks for the link!
Quote:
Quote:
|
Well it depends what her role is. If it just happens that there is a raft elf who happens to be a female named Tauriel I doubt many will be so bothered as if she in some way befriends Frodo and aids him liberate the dwarves. Which I fear since I don't htinkI have seen casting for the chief Gaoler and Galion.
|
But, you see, the point is that there shouldn't be a female rafter. What would a female do on the raft? They have better things to do. There must be some purpose for such a character. And that could be no other than playing the hot-elf-chick-princess-Xena.
Her role has to be very important, otherwise why would they go through all the trouble with Ronan, and then with Lily? Obviously it's not just a random rafter (that is both uncanonical and pointless)... |
Not necessarily so. Obviously the silvan elves in HoME Tolkien says that among the Eldar while some tasks tended to be carried out by neri or nissi there was no absolute bar (save I think Lembas) and women only fought in defence... it amuses me that food cooking was largely the province of male elves which leads me to suspect that barbecue featured heavily and hope that they did their own washing up....
|
The gift that won't stop giving
http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...iel-in-elvish/
She just won't shut up. She keeps telling anyone who will listen that, yes, she really does have a part in this movie -- no matter how lame and unnecessary -- and also that she gets to practice all sorts of language and stuff for whatever she gets to do in a movie that doesn't require her presence. Itaril/Tauriel Please shut your trap a spell Elvish or English You're just not what we would wish OK, you got a part: Wet T-shirt Hooters' tart Just what The Hobbit needs: Elf-chick that really bleeds |
I like this:
Quote:
And she's admittedly afraid of "rabid fans". Like I've been saying, since Liv Tyler's still thriving, Ms. Lilly should have no worries. ;) |
I find "Forest Daughter" vaguely reminiscent of "River Daughter" and it doesn't horrify me too much.
...after all this hate and discontent, I almost hope that I like her. |
Opening up the Empty
I see where the studio -- which otherwise enforces total secrecy -- continues allowing You-Know-Her to blab in public, hoping to drum up some kind of mall maiden interest in a Mary Sue elvish security guard with large breasts. Oh, please. Just hand me the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Why drag Tolkien into this smut?
And how does one "open up" about completely contrived emptiness? I liked the cleavage on display but couldn't bear to listen to the promotional blurb. Therefore, I'll just post the link for those with a stronger stomach than I possess. http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...s-a-pub-owner/ I get the point that You-Know-Her has a part in this movie playing something or someone that Peter Jackson first tried to sell as "Itaril" and -- when that blew up in his face -- tried again with another name, "Tauriel." Whatever. If at first you cannot sell That which doesn't go down well Try again, and hope like hell That no one gags from just the smell |
I'm not going to lie, I was prepared to grin and bear her part in the films, but I was insulted by that AccessHollywood interview on TORN. I mean, if the point of the interview was to allay our fears, then calling us rabid and then intimating that we would be pacified by the fact that she acted in LOST was definitely not the way to go.
Also, that vapid reporter has no idea what she is talking about. I have met many Tolkien fans over the years and they are not the least bit rabid. On the contrary, they are well-adjusted, well-read, intellectual sorts, who enjoy good literature and intelligent, reasoned conversations. So, unless rabid has become the new slang for "capable of critical thinking", or "unwilling to be force-fed the rubbish that frequently comes out of Hollywood", then that interview missed the mark in a huge way. |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:08 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.