It's very odd indeed. :smokin:

I disagree - I think it's always rather useful to read people's opinions on other players, even though there wouldn't be that much content. At least, writing such lists early on is hugely better than bantering, discussing whether Day 1s are useless or not, or not posting at all.


EDIT: x-ed with Pitchwife and Eomer

Well, Greenie, receiving your applause then your disapproval in the space of one post is quite an achievement. :p

Nevertheless, I've gone nearly a whole day without arguing with Lommy; you can't expect this abominable state of affairs to continue.

Looking at my list, I'm thinking of voting Nog or Mnemo. I've promised to give the internet over to Lommy soon, so I probably won't have time for a proper analysis on Mnemo - which means that voting for her would be pretty much gut-feeling. As for Nog, he's confusing me waaaay too much and I can't see a wolf-Nog making the arguments he did - but they didn't seem innocent or cobblerish or anything else, either. Eurgh.

Back and kicking. Not really that much to add in the last half hour as all of the discussion has gone towards exacerbating what I'm sure is just an innocent-on-innocent problem.

Oh, and Shasta, duly noted.

Not disapproval. Disagreement. :p

I'll lump Lommy, Greenie, Brinn and Eomer together (probably Shasta too), as all of them have shown some activity but not quite enough for me to form a definitive impression. Seen nothing that stands out against any of them. I'd say Eomer makes a little more good points than the rest (to be expected from a veteran of the first hour, as I think he is).
Nerwen - well, I don't know. She's been more controversial than I remember her from other Day 1's. Usually she's more calm, cool, collected, very balanced and sensible to the point of inscrutability, especially early in the game, but I think I've seen her get pointed and - well, not quite passionate, but something in that direction - when the situation seemed to call for it. So, maybe a bit untypical, but 'sinister' is taking it too far, I think.

Pitch and Inziladun are both giving me the closest thing to a wolvish vibe that I have right now. I'll probably vote for one of them... whichever one seems more likely to garner more votes at this point as I'm afraid they'll be in competition with the Dread Fracas.

That's the third time you've made reference to your opinion that Roa and Nogrod are both innocent.

:)

Okay, so the suspicionometers of everyone else on the thread were a lot less definitive than I thought...

And the vibes aren't giving me any more direction...

Which means it's coinflip time...

++Inziladun

Well then, going through in order of appearance.

No. It's "evidence" of the fact that I will not use such reasons - but can't put them aside either as a decent villager.

"Get her very far"? What do you mean? It would be handy for a wolf against D1 randomness, twisting the scales just that little to her favour if people were not sure (and she would be suspected). I think she's savvy enough to know that.

You're missing the point Pitch and honestly I don't get what you mean... It's not whether she's "proven wrong" with the numbers, but the image she's trying to convey of her not knowing the number of wolves around eg. meaning she has not been discussing the others last Night & not knowing exactly who the other wolves are.

No. I'm saying nothing like that. I'm saying an ordo can use her/his grey cells and see. Being blind is not the same thing as being a baddie... :p

Which position might you be hinting at? So have you realised why I'm after you and speak the truth here? :rolleyes:

If you mean the cobbler, sorry, you got it wrong. The cobbler is needed later in the game so suicidality is not their trademark early on. Heh Roa, no "seer-revealment" coming forwards. An innocent doesn't do that unless there is a real seer in danger from that innocent's POV.

I think a few of you have read my posts in an interesting way. What I said was that I didn't like the two (Roa and Nerwen) jumping on Boro's perfectly reasonable thoughts - like they were trying to make him look suspicious for that. And then I said:
Meaning that it was the same to me whether they (well Roa at that point, so it's singular) say they just disagreed or suspected him as there clearly was an attempt to make him look bad (so whichever she claimed she was meaning bore no consequence to one's judgement on her - like anyone saying "I'm innocent" means nothing).


Blahh... I'm clearly lagging too far behind to ever catch you...

A short pause, then reading the rest that has come in and hopefully some actual discussion.

An hour till DL... I'm off very soon, Lommy wants the internet, and I'm debating with myself whether to vote now or hastily before DL. It would make more sense now, I guess, but then again, I don't like decision-making, but then again, the decision has to be made anyway. :rolleyes:

Gah. I'll vote now.

++ Mnemo

I'll save Nog for later. I want to hear him explain himself toMorrow.


EDIT: x-ed with Nog. Oh well.

Not going to vote due to lack of participation (one day stay of execution)

Loslote
Nienna
sally
Shasta
wilwa
tromkehra
Bes


Want to keep alive for now

Boromir88
Eomer of the Rohirrim (!)
Morsul
Nogrod
Roa
Green


Will probably vote for one of:

Inziladun
Mnemosyne
Pitchwife
Brinn
Macalaure
Thinlómien
Nerwen

No, but by implying an ordo should see what you see is basically the same as implying that a person who doesn't see what you see is not an ordo. Get the point?

But now I'll go and let Lommy post. Decide wisely, folks. Good Night.

Would Roa really expect her innocence would appear more likely to us just because she seemed ignorant of the wolves' numbers? As she herself noted, that was done by her recently, and would be that much less believable in this case for that reason. I'm not saying she's innocent, mind, but that 'slip' alone is not very noteworthy to me.

x/d with Greenie and Eomer

Back. Reading everything up til now. Also, waiting on Legate to answer a PMed question about rules and such... More in a little while, hopefully. I swear I'm trying to participate in this game. :(

Point against Nogrod. I don't see why something that could have just as easily been an honest mistake (and probably was - did anyone besides me see the very-last minute dropping and adding of people? First there were three wolves, then four, then three again, then four again, etc. ad.) has to be the be-all and end-all, Roa's guilty, case closed.

Point against Nogrod. You can't know anything definitively as an ordo, anyway, and if you're (as I suspect you are) referring to the actual text of the ordo role PM, that's A) metagaming and rather unsavory in and of itself and B) highly inconclusive in any case.

I wouldn't go so far as to say this is a point against Eomer, but the way he subtly backs up Nogrod by agreeing with him and not really contributing to the conversation other than that strikes me as mildly strange.

Point for Roa. This reaction seems innocent to me (in fact, it's probably how I'd react in the same situation. :p)

Point against Nogrod. What makes "sense" to you may not necessarily make "sense" to someone else. Also, an immediate declaration of Nerwen being Roa's teammate, as her first defender. Wild accusations on flimsy evidence? Not what I'm used to seeing from Nogrod...

Mmm... point for Roa. However, firstly, I don't recall Boro ever saying "wolves are reasonable, gifteds aren't" - I believe the point was that we shouldn't dismiss someone from suspicion just because they're reasonable. The second part of the above quote seems to me like "Me? Oh yeah, well you..." This reaction, while not the best and seeming odd (I see a bit of "Nogrod suspects Roa, so Roa suspects him right back" thing going on) has the same tone as her previous post, that of indignant ordo.

Point for Nogrod. I believe this to be a more accurate representation of what Boro actually said/meant... that said, I still don't think a different point of view to be a sign of wolvery.

I'm unsure what to think here. On the one hand, it's the same indignant Roa whom I feel to be innocent based on her reaction. On the other, it seems as if she disagrees with Boro about wolves being able to slip by on being reasonable (if I'm wrong, please correct me) and I can't figure out why.

Point, point, point against Nogrod. Are you saying all that you have to convince you of Roa's guilt is the fact that she said "three" instead of "four"? Also, saying that you won't state anything more on the metagaming side of the issue is like saying "Roa is evil, but the rules prevent me from telling you why." If you legally can't say anything, you never should have brought it up - all it's been is a big distraction.

Point against Roa. Much as I think she's innocent, this theory is quite a stretch. Firstly, there is no Seer, so telling us what the seer-Nogrod would or wouldn't do is pointless. Secondly, saying that he can't be the Seer because he wouldn't attack you if he was, while probably true from your point of view, is unprovable/has no meaning for the rest of us. Unless you're trying to say that the secret role is in fact a cobbler, Nogrod received it, and is planning to reveal himself as the secret role-Seer (which makes no sense because as soon as you died we'd go after him, thus rather a waste of a secret role), I don't see where you're coming from.

There are one or two things I find strange about this post, but I'm finding it very hard to articulate them... for now, calling it a "general area of bad feeling".



So right now, having typed this beast up before Nogrod's latest post (in which he clears up some ambiguities), I would: rather not vote for Nogrod, but will if I see no other option/someone I think to be "more innocent" (that's not the correct term but it's slipped my mind at the moment) is up for execution; not vote for Roa at this time, and; would be willing to vote for Eomer.

X'd with Bes.

I think Greenie may be gone now, but why Mnemo?
I don't care much for the latter's vote for me due to a coin toss, but some reasoning here would be helpful.

Too many people look innocent to me right now. I don't want to vote Boro, Eomer, Lottie, Roa, Bes, Shasta, Greenie, and trom, and I would like to avoid voting Mnemo, Morsul, Brinn, Pitch, Nienna, and Nerwen.

Sally and Wilwa aren't newbies to me, but apart from those, they are the two who haven't provided much. Don't like voting them for that, of course, but I would rather do that than vote any of the above.

Since they're the only ones left, I'd tentatively consider Inzil (need to read more, so far mostly either agreed with others or defended himself), Nogrod (would deserve a long case, which I can't provide at the moment), Lommy (don't know what to do with her). Not happy with options.

edit: crossed with quite a few.

No I do not get it.

Basic logic: from "if A then B"... you can't deduce "if notB then notA".

Well, it seems Shasta has come back with dedication... *goes to read*

Back. Reading.

Let me help.

"Any ordo would be able to see what I see. You don't see what I see? Hmm... that must make you... not an ordo."

How about now? :)

Clarification - it wasn't the deduction, it was the inference.

Hope that helps. I did some translation work a while back - Nerwen can vouch. :smokin:

Mac: 1 (Morsul)

Nogrod: 1 (Roa)

Nerwen: 1 (Brinn)

Inziladun: 1 (Mnemo)

Mnemo: 1 (Green)


Finely balanced. :cool:

Zil - a quiet presence, hanging back and posting only when he's got something to say, which makes him look cautious and on his guard. Suspecting him is almost as easy and popular as Hakon-bashing. Sometimes he deserves it, sometimes not, hard to tell which. So far, however, I've seen nothing that cries wolf, and I don't quite see where Mnemo's vote comes from.
Mac has been playing in a somewhat similar style so far, which makes it hard to pin him down. But I find it noteworthy that he rescinded his early 'declaration of innocence' for me (for which, truth to be told, there was hardly any base at the time but maybe a vague instinct) very shortly after I pointed out his use of double standards.

Now for the Nog-Roa controversy. We've seen it all before, but this time, Nog looks odder of the two. Secret cobbler is a definitive possibility, but no more than that. Let's keep them both for another Day and see whether Nog comes up with something more substantial.

EDIT: x-ed with everyone since Mnemo's #130.

++MNEMOSYNE

There are a number of shady characters around here, and I don't want to add a new person to the voting list.

Mnemo has been very visible without getting too involved. It seems she's trying to be, what was that word, agreeable? Repeating your opinion that both Nogrod and Roa are probably innocent also makes me a bit uneasy. Look, everyone round here knows that one of them will end up dying sooner or later - and when that hapens you'll be there to say "I told you so!"

It's not a lot but then wolves are rarely obvious on Day One, so I'm gambling. No hard feelings? ;)

Nope... Sorry. Even if you call it just an inference.

I never said that any ordo automatically sees it, but anyone could.

'nuff said.

Oddly enough, after apparently deciding not to go for me here:


Mac then flip flops:

And I still think he was entirely too quick to use the Boro controvery-which-shouldn't-have-been as a reason to cast suspicions.

Ah Shasta, ever eager to play Eomer to my Lommy.

Wait, what? :p

Just noticed - I was under the impression that Nog had voted Roa already, but according to Eomer's tally he hasn't, and I can't actually find a vote among his posts (would be quite uncharacteristic for him to vote early, anyway). Didn't want to create a false impression.
Has anybody considered Nog has a secret role which is not a cobbler?

I'm here and I have read everything and I honestly just don't have anything to say. I seem to be a bit unable to get a grip on the game, undoubtedly partly because I haven't been dedicating it as much time as I could have, due to seeing friends etc.

While I agree that I would totally advocate the Roa-Nogrod-in-cahoots theory as a wolf if they were innocent, I still advocate it also as an innocent with no knowledge on their roles. Because normally if they were like that there would be at least one "oh don't we ever learn, we always do this" comment in the middle of that, but no. This time it seems staged because it's so dramatic. Neither party is questioning their reasoning at all, which is not a sign of innocence.

I'm not sure if I'll vote either of them, though, because funnily enough, that would seem quite drastic to me, especially as if ignoring the details, their petty fight seems so normal and thus not very suspicious at all. Argh. I guess I could vote Mnemo or Nienna, but they haven't really done much to merit my suspicion (but then again it's Day1). Or then I could vote Eomer because he would undoubtedly like that. :p


edit: xed with the stuff after the vote count

What, no interest in a spinoff of "The Shasta/Eomer Show"? :p

X'd with Lommy.

Here for a bit and will read through as quickly as I can. *dashes off* Vote count?

Ok so I'm super sorry I haven't been around till now. I was working. I'll be on till deadline though I don't know how much help I can be. Lommy is feeling the worst to me so far. Her posts haven't been helpful but I know she is coming on the computer so I'll giver her a slight chance. I don't think that Mnemo is looking all that suspicious. Nog and Roa are probably both innocents. I don't know what to do with Mac or Boro but I probably won't be voting for either of them. I also won't be voting Morsul.

Edit: Crossed with a host

Morsul -> Mac
Roa -> Nogrod
Brinn -> Nerwen
Mnemo -> Inzil
Green -> Mnemo
Eomer -> Mnemo(2)

That reminds me that I have to explain why there were no double standards. Inzil's list had nothing in it (Eomer noted the same somewhere). Mine had little more than nothing, but I admitted its little use.
My (non-)suspicion of you had nothing to do with it. You felt innocent at first, then less, now more again.


Inzil, is your only points against me that I jump to conclusions and back too quickly? What else are you supposed to do on Day1? If you voice your opinions with some overblown certainty, at least you'll be sure to get a response that's valuable. ;)

Eugh. You guys post so very, very quickly. Admittedly there's close to 20 people in the game, so that's to be expected. Anyway!

I don't feel at all confident in my previous statement about Boro at this point; I was sleepy, it was 1AM, and even then it just me going with my gut... and later being sort of irritated at what I perceived as an inflammatory response.

I'm hesitant to peg either Roa or Nogrod, though they both feel suspicious to me, Nogrod more than Roa. He's speaking in a very firm and confident way about an argument that has about an ounce of evidence which is based on something that could just as easily be a coincidence. I don't want to say he's wrong, but I won't vote Roa today based on that either. He'll have to sell it to me more tomorrow.

I'll admit that I haven't considered everything as carefully as I could, but the arguments that make the most sense to me, right now, are Inzil's arguments against Mac. He's the only one so far that I can look back all the way and say that I feel iffy about, aside from the previously mentioned Roa and Nogrod.

++Macalaure

Darn, Eomer's vote for Mnemo makes me hesitant to vote her, because that would turn the Mnemo-votes to a bandwagon and I'm not sure if she deserves that.

Also, I don't get why Nogrod seems so desperate. Usually he keeps calm even if the whole village suspects him and now it's only a minority.

Nienna comes back and suspects me. Wonderful. Because that makes me suspect her in return. I feel sort of "justified" in this suspicion though, because others have suspected me slightly too and I don't suspect them, so I'm not suspecting everybody in retaliation ergo my suspicion of Nienna can't be totally retaliatory which'd mean there's something that seems off to me in her behaviour even if I can't analyse it... Makes sense? :confused::p


edit: xed with a host

I will probably stick with Roa whatever you think... unless there is something I find totally wrong in the voting.

Of others I'd say that Nerwen's fast "backpedalling" (heh, I learned a new word from this) after being suspected, even if quite easily, looks a bit suspicious - not to say what some others have said that she's a bit tense.

I don't find Mnemo that suspicious. Instead she was one of the only reasonable ones at least in the earlier part of the Day - sadly I don't have such a clear view on her from the latter part of the Day.

I agree that Inzil's first list of people looked more of something that was intended to look good rather than being genuinely helpful - and he has been careful indeed. Like Pitchie...

I always suspect Mac - and I actually do now as well. But I would be very hesitant to call anything on that, at least without any further reasons.

I feel, actually think I have a reason to believe, that Boro is innocent.

With Shasta I'm wavering; could go both ways.

Last minute bandwaggon against me? At least Inzil's vote should be guaranteed...

Joy. :rolleyes:

Ewwwwwwww.... the time!