The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - Predictions for Return of the King

The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/index.php)

- The Movies (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Predictions for Return of the King (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=9258)

HC, thank you for taking the time to figure out the page allotment per movie. I'm feeling a little more optimistic about RotK that I was before. Although, the link that Morquesse posted worries me a little. The TTT trailers showed very little of Frodo and I had worried that the movies might as well - unfortunately, it turned out as I had feared. I've been hoping that RotK will make up for that but the two paltry mentions of Frodo in that one now makes me even more nervous.And HC, I've been a Frodo nut since I was yay-high and believe me when I tell you, we don't need the naked Frodo scene! Maybe if someone a little more buff was playing the part, but I really have no desire to see Elijah's skinny butt magnified on the big screen. Although, I am hoping desperately for really good scenes in the tower (exactly as written, oh please, oh please) and hoping against hope for the orc-run.

Forgot I had this. Only look if you really want to know!<A HREF="http://www.thepalantir.com/comments.php3?id=733" TARGET=_blank>Palantir website RotK Spoilers</A>

Morquesse, Aratlithiel, you have just ruined, ruined, my resolution not to get too excited about RotK! Thanks for those spoilers, I just hope hope hope the stuff with Pippin is as good as it sounds. And I was getting a little worried that maybe the romance between Faramir and Éowyn would be dropped, but we actually get to see their wedding?????????Somebody, please shake me and remind me that if I get too excited I'll just be disappointed. Maybe I shuld mosey on over to "The Portrayal of Faramir" to douse myself with some cold water. But seriously, I can't wait![ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

Please tell me that all those spoilers are true! . That would be so great, the Army of the Dead, the paths of the Dead, is Peter Jackson actually going to follow the storyline of the book? Well were going to have to see... Actually I had already heard that they were going to have Arwen and Aragorn's wedding, because on eonline.com they had a special feature on the FOTR. They had sent a reporter who just happened to be there when they were filming the scenes of the wedding, and it told a lot about it. If you went to the website and wanted to see it, you probably still find it.

Well, I thought Aragorn and Arwen's wedding was a given, but I didn't think we'd actually get to see Faramir and Éowyn's. Maybe we won't, it's just a spoiler after all. But you never know...

You just have to see these <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/8/1044081420" TARGET=_blank>TheOneRing.net</A> these are rumors about the preview for the ROTK, you know, remember they attached the 4 minute TTT one to the end of FOTR. Well they are going attach a ROTK one to the end of TTT. Some of these things that they may show are amazing. When I first saw these they blew my socks off! especially the possible ending for the preview.Oh and Diamond18 I know they are probably going to have the wedding of Faramir and Eowyn, but I know for that to happen, Faramir's attitude is going to have to change. [ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: Gorwingel ]

I can't wait for the Mount Doom bit. And maybe Faramir will wake up from his coma a new man. Though, in all fairness, his attitude did change at the end of TTT. Illogical as that little scene was, it allows me to look forward to the Faramir/Éowyn romance in RotK. I'm being very hopeful right now. (Please oh please oh please oh pleeeeeeaaaase make it good...)

Faramir's attitude did change a little, but not as much as it could of, but oh, that topic is a whole other thread... All those scenes for the preview sounded wonderful, I was one of the lucky few who got to see TTT one in the theater, and it was truely one of the most wonderful previews I have ever seen in my life. I dearly hope that the ROTK, is even greater than TTT one.

It's bizarre, but the spoilers gave me a closure. I did have doubts that the scouring may not happen: the moviegoer/critic in me would not know what to make of it if it were included. I imagine that a lot of scenes would be shortened, as the account of Gollum and the Hobbits were condensed....but what I am really restless about is the actual ending. I hope that they keep it that way. Galadriel telling Elrond in movie 2 that "the quest will claim his life" depresses me in anticipating the whole outcome [ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: Neferchoirwen ]

The whole Galadriel "the quest will claim his life" was weird, but it (to me) is not that ridicules, because it does claim his life in a way. The entire journey has hurt him so much that he can no longer live life the way it was before, he has been scared for life. Many people who had not read the book were very confused about that line.

My thoughts on that which lies ahead: I hated the FotR movie because I wanted it to be perfect, and it was dissapointing that they changed it so much. Then, after I saw the Extended Edition, it gained my approval. I realized that my expectations were too high for this production of LotR, and gleefully awaited TTT. Then, I saw TTT. I hated it infinitely more than I had hated FotR. I despised it, and wished that it had never been produced and that no one had ever seen it. Perhaps I will allow my expectations to lower even more before RotK, but if the trend continues I will probably weep over the loss. Even if it meets up to very low standards of TTT, I will become tremendously bitter and despise those who say that it is wonderful. I hope for a miracle, but the time for it has passed. Middle-Earth has passed into darkness. To quote Sam from Book VI, ch. 8 : <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> This is worse than Mordor! Much worse in a way. It comes home to you, as they say; because it is home, and you remember it before it was all ruined.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Those are my feelings. None could have written them better.Solemnly, Iarwain

Wouldnt it be cool if it showed Frodo, Bilbo, Gandalf, Elrond, etc... arriveing in valinor at the end of the movie? I think that would be awesome and i hope the scouring will be in it *crossing fingers*

Sorry for the dissapointment, but Scouring's out for sure. I don't have it straight from PJ's lips or anything, but they still have to squeeze in half of TTT, plus RotK. And, as Saruman is going to be thrown from Orthanc, I don't know who could possibly brew the trouble in the Shire. I believe that if asked, PJ, Philly, and Franny would say that it would have been "too confusing" and they had to do it because of time constraints. Valinor would definately be awesome, though.Sorrowfully, Iarwain[ February 01, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I despised it, and wished that it had never been produced and that no one had ever seen it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL, Iarwain - but can you tell us how you REALLY feel? Actually, I'm rather with you on that and have not been terribly secretive about my thoughts on the subject in various other threads. Unfortunately for me, I am a hopeless optimist and even though I'm sure I'll be horribly disappointed in RotK, I still can't help feeling impatient anticipation. To top it off, I'm also a Stephen King fan and have the rest of the DT series to look forward to this fall as well. I'm beginning to wonder if it would be possible to bribe some unethical doctor to put me in a light coma for awhile and wake me in November!! TTT ext. DVD, DT5, Rotk, DT6...Aaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!! I can't take it!

This may, somehow, surprise you, but when I really think about it, that is exactly how I feel. What else might I feel that I didn't tell? I do know myself a great deal better than you know me, so please don't comment on what I think, when you've never held a conversation with me before, much less met me. By the way, what does ROFL mean?Grumpy, Iarwain

This does not probably belong to this thread, but when I read Iarwain's post, I just had to say something... I loved the FOTR. Of course they had made some changes and left out many things, but I still found it MAGICAL. Just a while ago I was reading the script (for the FOTR) and I could almost feel the shivers going down my spine, when I read the beginning words of Galadriel ("The world has changed"...etc.). And then I suddenly felt infinitely sad. Because I had waited TTT so much and I almost hated it. (Or actually - I did hate it the first time I saw it. The second time I found it a little better...) I still can't quite realize, how they could spoil it like that! Where is the magic? Where is Middle-Earth? I'm sad, too, Iarwain. I don't know what to think about the ROTK. I try not to expect anything...

I love FotR now, but at first I was highly displeased. It is a magical film, and they do a good job with the adaption in most cases. (With the exception of Sam's gift of rope. Rope! how mean!) I suppose I've said all I've got to say.Iarwain

Iarwain, ROFL means "roll on the floor laughing". It's also sometimes shortened to ROTFL. I'm not Aratlithiel, but I think that post actually meant "you have expressed yourself most explicitly and I pretty much agree with you." I don't think it was meant to offend.Since you originally disliked FotR but liked it more once you saw the extended DVD, isn't it possible you may like the extended TTT? PJ said the extended versions were for the book fans, so I think they will be more what we're hoping for.I too was disappointed in TTT at first, but now (thanks to HCIsland) I understand why some of the movie choices were made. I still don't agree with some of them, but I can be more philosophical about them now than I originally could. More predictions:I really can't see Arwen taking Eowyn's place on the Pelennor fields. PJ would have to be suicidal to do that and I don't think he is. Eowyn WILL kill the Witch King. I'm absolutely certain of it.HCIsland, I've changed my mind about the Paths of the Dead. I don't think they will lead out from Helm's Deep as you suggested. After seeing the movie again, Gamling went to tell the women to take the back way out without arguing too much about it, so I think the Paths will be next to Edoras. That also prevents Aragorn from having to ride back to Helm's Deep after visiting Isengard.Since we see Merry at Edoras offering his sword to Theoden, I guess the muster of Rohan will take place, and take place there. Since Theoden and Aragorn would be there simultaneously (rather than sequentially, as in the book), I predict Eowyn will make her plea to Aragorn in private instead of outside with the stirrup cup where Theoden could hear her.I think Faramir will make his second trip to Osgiliath instead of being wounded immediately on returning. He needs to have the confrontation with his father (unless they're going to do it in flashbacks). In Quickbeam's essay on going to the movie set, Quickbeam had to dress as a soldier of Minas Tirith and pretend he was sad because "the Prince you love is leaving and you don't know if he'll return". That should be Faramir returning to Osgiliath. (BTW, Quickbeam also mentioned Beregond, but I'm not sure if he was saying that Beregond was actually being portrayed. In any case, I still don't think Beregond will exist in the movieverse.)I think Frodo will be dressed. New Line needs the movie to have a PG rating.-Lily[ February 02, 2003: Message edited by: Lily Bracegirdle ]

Thank you, Lily for your (accurate) explanation of my motivations. Apparently, sarcasm is difficult to translate through the keyboard and I will need to be more careful about my attempts to give Iarwain a pat on the back in the future. (That was sarcastic, Iarwain - just in case you couldn't tell ) I'm going to assume it was a simple misunderstanding and avoid getting p-o'd myself.And Lily, where is this stuff from Quickbeam you refer to? (My name is Aratlithiel and I'm a spoiler-holic.)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Quickbeam had to dress as a soldier of Minas Tirith <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL, when I first read this I didn't realize that Quickbeam was a poster. I thought you were talking about the character and that we were going to have an Ent posing as a tower guard. I had this visual of him trying to get into the uniform. I guess you meant Pippin here.At first I was trying to avoid spoilers, but I've given that up. Like many of you, when I first saw TTT I was thrown a bit by some of the changes, so now I figure if I try and think ahead to the possible changes I won't be thrown as much.I think TTT had a bit of sophmore jinx to it as well. When I went to see FoTR, I went in with very little expectations and was completely blown away. By the time TTT came out, I was so pumped that even if Tolkien himself was reserected on stage, I would have likely been a bit let down. I'm going to try and go to RoTK a bit more level headed. Man, it's still more then 10 months away!!!H.C.

Hi, Aratlithiel! Glad to be of service. I once totally alienated a friend via email in a big horrible misunderstanding, so I'm sensitive to those kinds of things and want to smooth them over *immediately*, even if it's none of my business. Quickbeam is the pen name of a writer at theOneRing.net who wrote about getting to visit the set of LotR.I've never done links before, so forgive me if this doesn't work:<A HREF="http://greenbooks.theonering.net/quickbeam/" TARGET=_blank>http://greenbooks.theonering.net/quickbeam/</A>The title of the article is "Where the Stars are Strange". Good reading! The scene where he burst into tears in front of the gate of Minas Tirith reminded me of Sam Gamgee at Cormallen.-Lily

Sorry Arathilthiel!! My fault, I see now how that was a sarcastic remark, sorry for lashing out so quickly! Glad it's cleared up!Iarwain

Thank you once again, Lily. I usually only go on that site for daily news - I'll have to start surfing a little more.(patting Iarwain on the back) Like I said, sarcasm doesn't translate well - I'll try to be more careful.

I really really hope they show the scouring of the shire. The ending and all. It would suck, even if they have alot of stuff to squeeze into the third movie, if they just ended it with gollum falling off the cliff. Don't let me down PJ!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I really really hope they show the scouring of the shire ... Don't let me down PJ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Prepare to be let down, Ainaserkewen.

But don't worry, they won't end it with Gollum. There's weddings and parties and the Grey Havens to follow. Just not Sharkey and Worm.-Lily

I mentioned in another thread that my wife bought me a "Making of the Trilogy" book which talks about the making of all three movies. I'm not finished yet, but here are a few tidbits I've picked up.The writer talks about seeing the set for The Paths of the Dead and props for Denethor's Funeral Pyre.There's a description of the location for Pelennor Fields.There's a picture and description of Grond, the battling ram used to smash the gates of Minas Tirith.There's an interview with Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan where they argue about who looks better in their respective uniforms of Rohan and Gondor.There are more scenes shot in Bag End which will appear in the third movie.That's all that I remember right now. I'll let you know if anything else pops up.H.C.

Just enjoy the movie. It won't be true to teh book, but at least they have it on movie.

At tORN there's a news tidbit that the first edit of RotK is *six hours long*! Whew! That would be something to watch! Extended Extended Extended DVD anyone?-Lily

There are several characters that I hope they don't leave out..Beregond..I don't know if they'll have him or not..I hope they have the Woses! (The drunedain)..I really hope they have the houses of healing..that's my favorite part..

OT, HC Island, would you recommend buying the photo book? I'm interested to know if it has many of Viggo's pictures of the cast. I saw a couple of his pics of Sean Bean and Elijah Wood on the DVD and they were very interesting.Ummm, trying to think of something to say on topic... Do you think Ghan buri Ghan will be played by a caucasian? I can see people crying racism either way.For some reason, I'm hoping Gwaihir won't talk in the movie.-Lily

I'm sure there are lots of movie companion books out there. The one I've got is called "The Making of a Trilogy" and is full of behind the scenes stuff. It has no pictures that Viggio took and doesn't talk about his photography skills.Latest thing I read that I found interesting is the costume person talking about the evolution of Arwen's character and how that necessitated costume changes. Apparently she was far more of a warrior princess in their original concept but then they toned her down (thank goodness). This may be the source of that "dirty Arwen" picture.One of the make-up people also talks about the make-up for the Paths of the Dead sequence. It really looks like this will be in there. H.C.

I don't have many expectations for this movie. I'm a naturally cautious person when it comes to things I admire: I was cautious about TTT, but was still let down; I was cautious about Star Wars Episode I and II; I was extremely cautious about The X-Files: Fight the Future. All I can say is this: if TTT was the farthest-strayer from the books, RotK will be better. That is my only expectation for this movie: that it be better than TTT, both from a reader's view and a non-reader's view.... and I'm looking forward to see the Witchking's and Denethor's demise, despite what any instinct, skepticism or baseball bat to the head can instill in me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Do you think Ghan buri Ghan will be played by a caucasian? I can see people crying racism either way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ghan-buri-Ghan will be played by an actor named <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Name?Kaa,+Wi+Kuki" TARGET=_blank>Wi Kuki Kaa</A>. If you use the link you can find more about him. No picture though.

I thought I'd drag this back up. It would be good to have one place where we can keep track of what we think will be the changes in RotK. This can combine information from interviews, articles, pictures and just plain guessing. It would also be nice if we could keep this about what we THINK will happen as opposed to what we HOPE will happen. There's plenty of threads for complaining about no Scouring of the Shire, how much you hate Arwen and how there's no way they can repair the damage to Faramir.This is what I've got. I apologize for the length.Scouring of the Shire: No scouring. It ain’t gonna be there. I imagine there will be some kind of hobbit homecoming and I would think they would have to play how different these guys are from when they left so it wouldn’t surprise me if there is some incident in which Sam, Merry and Pippin show who’s boss. Perhaps something involving the Sackville-Bagginses and Bag End?Saruman & Wormtongue: Without the Scouring of the Shire, obviously something different has to be done with Saruman and Wormtongue. It seems at least Saruman’s death will be at Orthanc and it seems likely Wormtongue will bite the big one at the same time. I suspect this will all be fairly early in the film as Saruman’s tale in the war is largely done and it’s time for him to be removed to make room for the big guy.Sauron: Word has it Sauron will take physical form. The question is, will this be early or late in the film? My guess is early. With Saruman’s demise the movie will need a villain front and center. In fact, I would guess that Sauron will take physical form before Saruman is killed which would put it very early in the movie.Arwen: So what will they be having Arwen do through this movie? It seems pretty certain that she will be delivering Andúril to Aragorn early in the film. Will the Dúnedain be there? Personally, I don’t think so. Arwen’s brothers? Maybe, though certainly their roll will be extremely small if they are mentioned by name at all. I think it is very likely Arwen will show up with an entourage of elves, so having them led by Elrond’s sons does seem a possibility at least. I think the real question is what happens to Arwen after this scene? Does she travel with Aragorn through the Paths of the Dead (Please God, no)? Even worse would be her traveling with the Rohirrim. Perhaps she’ll have a little tête-à-tête with Eowyn? Wouldn’t that be awkward?I think we need to get Arwen out of there but still have her in the movie. Here comes my theory. Aragorn tells her he can’t do what he needs to do with her around and she agrees to leave. Taking a few elves with her, she leaves for Lothlórien to talk things over with Grammy. Likely Elrond can show up later and they can hash this all out.The Palantir: Wormtongue throwing the palantir from Orthanc is one of my favourite scenes and I hope it’s kept. Either way I think the whole deal with Pippin and the palantir will be kept. My guess is that the main difference will be that Gandalf will take the palantir with him to Minas Tirith and Aragorn will not look into it and challenge Sauron until after the Battle of Pelennor Fields.Faramir: But without Aragorn challenging Sauron, why would there be a Battle of Pelennor Fields in the first place? You are forgetting the added scenes at Osgiliath at the end of Two Towers. Early in the film Frodo, Sam and Gollum will find themselves before the gates of Minas Morgul and, as in the book, the Witch King will emerge from the gates leading an army. Frodo will correctly guess that they are going to Osgiliath to seize the Ring. Faramir will defend the city for a while but when it is clear that they will not be able to keep the hosts of Mordor from crossing, he will send a scout to Edoras to seek the aid of Rohan. By then Aragorn and company will be at Edoras and will learn that Faramir will be forced to retreat to Minas Tirith to make a final stand there. This spurs the ride of the Rohirrim and Aragorn’s crossing of the Paths of the Dead. Faramir fans should get some battle scenes with him.Frodo & Sam: These should be the ones that carry the film and, thankfully, they have a fair amount to do. With Shelob and Cirith Ungol the majority of action and tension in the first half of the film should be coming from these two, as it should be. After that, I suspect much of the journey across Gorgoroth will be shortened, especially the marching with the orcs, which visually I just can’t see how they can make work. They’ll have to have an encounter with Gollum to remind the audience he is still on their trail and undoubtedly they will see the armies of Mordor gathering to the Black Gates as the land of Mordor itself is emptied. Another of my favourite scenes is when Sam and Frodo throw away their gear and it’s looking like we will get that.Merry: Word has it Merry will be with the armies of the west in front of the Black Gates. I can see this because if they don’t have him go you are effectively taking one of your major characters out of the film for a half hour or so. This leads to the next question.Houses of Healing: Obviously Merry is not going to be hurt bad enough to warrant him staying behind. I guess he and Eowyn are able to shrug off the effect of killing the Witch King. Personally, I think the Houses of Healing will be much down played. I can see them giving Aragorn a scene with Faramir as it will likely echo very nicely with Aragorn’s final scene with Boromir, but I don’t think they’ll do the whole hands of a healer stuff. Aragorn’s skill as a healer just hasn’t really been played upon. Will Arwen be here? It would be tempting as it gives her something to do and it’s a damn sight better than her marching to the Black Gates (which is still a distinct possibility). Personally, if she is going to show up here I hope it is after Aragorn and his armies have left and Eowyn has already met Faramir. Eowyn and Arwen can then have a little girl talk and diss Aragorn. Arwen: Do you know he leaves the toilet seat up? Eowyn: The pig! You’d never do that would you Faramir dear? Faramir: Are you kidding? I can’t even pee standing up.The White Tree: No hide nor hare of a mention of this but I still have my hopes. It may be completely gone, but it would not take much to establish it. Pippin could see the dead tree as he travels through Minas Tirith with Gandalf and ask Gandalf about it. Either way, I doubt we would get Aragorn finding the shoot on the mountain side. That would take too much time. Perhaps it will just bloom magically after Sauron is defeated. I’m sure that will get on the nerves of some of you.H.C.[ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

LOLOLOLOf course Faramir would never leave the toilet seat up You forgot to add in the conversation between Arwen and Galadriel...Arwen: Granny (sobbing hopelessly), Daddy doesn't like my boyfriend.Galadriel: There, there, I'm sure he will come around.Seriously...I like your analysis. Especially because it would help for us to understand why in blazes PJ had the ring in Osgiliath to begin with...The nazgul would report back to Sauron and of course he would assume that Faramir took it to Minas Tirith, and concentrate his forces there to retrieve it.

Thought I would update this. These have come up in other threads but, like I said, it would be good to try and keep this together.Sam & Frodo: There are action figures of Sam and Frodo in orc garb, so perhaps the marching with the orcs will be there.Saruman & Wormtongue: <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1052497889" TARGET=_blank>OneRing</A> has what they call a pretty reliable description of Saruman and Wormtongue's death. It describes Wormtongue slitting Saruman's throat and throwing him over the edge at Orthanc. Then Legolas shoots Wormtongue with an arrow.Sauron: In the same link as above Aragorn is described fighting Sauron in combat and getting his but kicked.H.C.

Speculation of the first scene of RotK:Each film begins with a sort of prologue (well not sort of for Fellowship) and then cuts directly to Frodo. The prologue is designed to thrust the viewer into the story and Frodo is the first character we see after the prologue to reaffirm that he is the central character.My wife and I got talking on the weekend about how should they start RotK. After bouncing ideas back and forth we came up with this.Return to the scene of Frodo versus the Nazgul at Osgiliath with that memorable shot of Frodo standing on the building holding out the Ring. The fell beast is struck by the arrow and Frodo is tackled by Sam. We follow the Nazgul as he regains control of his steed and hauls butt for Barad-dur with a shot of the now very familiar flaming eyeball. He enters and makes his way to a dark chamber.Nazgul (Witch King?): My lord, the Ring is in Gondor.Shot of the shadows at one end of the chamber. Suddenly a figure steps out with that all too familiar helmet we saw in the prologue.Sauron: Retrieve it. Spare no effort. Destroy all those who oppose you.Cut to Frodo with Sam and Gollum walking through Ithilien. After some dialogue to remind the viewers what is going on here, they spy the gates of Minas Morgul. They open and out comes The Witch King leading his army. There's now doubt what they are after and where they are going and why.I'm sure this thought bugs a lot of you, but I really think we have to get used to the idea seeing Sauron very early in the film. I was thinking they can make Sauron's helmet immediately recongizable by even the most casual viewer by having it as part of their poster and other promotions.Anyway, other thoughts on how they might kick off this one?H.C.

This is something I started months ago and forgot about but began to finish it off over the weekend. I'm very interested in the whole process of turning something as mammoth as Lord of the Rings into film so I began writting a little synopses of each chapter and then beside it how it was handled in the film. I then extended this into predictions for TTT-Special Edition, RotK and even RotK-Special Edition.Anyway, <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/hcisland/tolkien.htm" TARGET=_blank>here it is.</A> It's all colour coded by movie so it's pretty easy to follow I think. I'll keep it updated as more stuff comes in.Obviously, it's chock full of my own opinions which carry no more weight than anyone elses and, of course, it's also full of spoilers, but nothing no one has seen elsewhere. I'm just trying to keep it all together for my own amusement.H.C.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Frodo & Sam: These should be the ones that carry the film and, thankfully, they have a fair amount to do. With Shelob and Cirith Ungol the majority of action and tension in the first half of the film should be coming from these two, as it should be. After that, I suspect much of the journey across Gorgoroth will be shortened, especially the marching with the orcs, which visually I just can’t see how they can make work. They’ll have to have an encounter with Gollum to remind the audience he is still on their trail and undoubtedly they will see the armies of Mordor gathering to the Black Gates as the land of Mordor itself is emptied. Another of my favourite scenes is when Sam and Frodo throw away their gear and it’s looking like we will get that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>H.C. - I'm just going to follow you around the board from now on. Everytime you post you make me feel a little better about the potential outcome of RotK. Of course, if you get my hopes up only to have PJ dash them to pieces, I get to kick your a**. Kidding, kidding. You know I love ya!