Thanks for those posts, <B>tWiLiGhT </B>. They're very encouraging.

Hey, here's some info that I found: <P>(Spoilers)<P>The third of the trilogy. As the shadow of Mordor grows across the land, Aragorn is revealed as the hidden heir to the ancient kings. Gandolf miraculously returns and defeats the evil wizard, Saruman. Sam leaves his master for the dead after a battle with the giant spider, Shelob; but Frodo is still alive--in the hands of the Orcs. And while the armies of the Dark Lord are massing--and the one ring comes ever closer to the Cracks of Doom.<p>[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: WhatName ]

The Return of the King will be the best of the three. The battles bigger, the stakes grow higher and every step towards Mordor gets harder. I personally can't wait even though I have the Two Towers right here to see.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> "To me, it's a culmination of the entire story; it represents what it is to give and what it is to lose," he says. "That scene is probably the most powerful part of the entire film." <P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>See PJ gets it. Ive said all along as long as the movie ends with the Grey Havens then all is good. I will bet there will not be one dry eye at the end of this movie. And I can only imagine what marvelously sweet and somber tune Howard Shore is composing to compliment it.<P><I>'Where are you going, Master?' cried Sam, though at last he understood what was happening.<BR>'To the Havens, Sam,' said Frodo.<BR>'And I can't come.'<BR>'No Sam.' </I><P>and<P><I>"Well, here at last, dear friends on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-Earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep; for not all tears are evil." </I><P>Heartbreaking.<p>[ December 31, 2002: Message edited by: GreyIstar ]

Another SPOILER! Possibly a description of the trailer for ROTK! <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/perl/newsview/2/1047330856" TARGET=_blank>Click Here!</A>

I read that, I am now worried if that is true (which I doubt), some of those things really stray away from the books.

Well, PJ did say that the reason the trailer would not be attached to the end of TTT is because he hasn't finished it yet, he has been working on the RotK film. So I doubt this report. Thanks for linking it though.<P>...only 281 more days...

It sounds... rushed. If Sauron really charges at Aragorn I will leave then and there. Of course, all of the rest I could have guessed, and some (Wormtounge killing Saruman in orthanc) I already knew. We will see. We will indeed.<P>Riding peacefully on Fatty Lumpkin,<BR>Iarwain

I don't know if I believe that review, but I think that he may be getting the character of the Mouth of Sauron confused with Sauron. I have seen photos of the Mouth and he does look pretty imposing, plus the actor they cast for his part is quite tall. Just a thought that might explain the idea that Sauron leads the charge, which would make the Faramir departure look pretty tame. I have faith in PJ.

I'm not too worried about RotK, I mean, I...unfortunately...saw the movie(s) before I read the book.(don't hate me!!!) I read RotK though, I'm halfway through FotR, and I read the Hobbit.<P>Anyway, I can only imagine what PJ could do to RotK. I know that since there's no Scouring of the Shire, and I saw a spoiler pic, Saruman does get impaled on some sort of jagged rock; probably something on Orthanc. I'm guessing that Denethor, if he dies at all, will die other than torching himself, as these days, people getting burned alive seems to be somewhat controversial. As long as the Palantir, and the Wizard showdown etc. Is there, it should be a good movie. If they put in the paths of the Dead and Pelennor fields, the Mouth of Sauron, and Merry/Eowyn/Whitchking. It should be better, But I'll be REALLY mad if they leave out the right ending to the ring, or the Grey Havens. Man! I could go on and on and on and...on. I'll post later. I thought that the other movies were really well made. I love them!!! But the story mostly went to hell.<P>Ranger of the Dúnedain,<P>Aerandir Carnesir

I personally think that RoTK will be the <B>BEST</B> of the three and I certainly anticipate it greatly! RoTK is my favorite from the books and I have confidence in PJ's abilities to finish these movies off well with the third one!<P>I am <B>very</B> anxious to watch Elijah Wood's performance in this one as well as Sean Astin -- judging from how wonderful they both did in the first two movies, I am going to be crying a river during RoTK!<P>I also can't wait see the parts with the other characters and <B>PLEASE</B> let Faramir's character be redeemed before RoTK ends as I didn't like what they did to him either in TTT!<P><I>*Sighs*</I><P>December 17 is <B>SOOOOOOOOOOOO</B> far off and <B>I CAN'T WAIT</B>!!!!

If you go to the <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net" TARGET=_blank>www.theonering.net</A> and go to the movie section and then to casst you can read a little about them and the mouth of Sauron is 6' (7"?) tall. Do you know where you found the pics of him were Vahalla? Another things is that the real daughter of Sean Astin plays Elanor in the movie. I have seen some of the pics and she is a few years old running into daddy Sam's arms. To finish the movie prehaps they will have Sam coming back from the havens and having his daughter run into his arms. Who knows.

I'm making a bet that, since the Scouring has been eliminated from the movie, that Frodo will never cross the boundries of the Shire again. I don't know how they will work out the logistics, but I can see the Fellowship winding up at the Havens (or some equivalent place. The Bay of Belfalas?) and having Frodo, Bilbo, et. al. saying their good-byes first. <P>Then Merry, Pippin and Sam make their way home alone.

They can't go straight to the Grey Havens. When would Sam have found the time to father Elanor?

Whoops! Good point. (Forgot about that minor matter. )

I think that ROTK will be the best, too. I can't wait to see the dead army. (sorry for those who are reading the book) I really can't wait to see the meeting at the black gates with the messanger of Sauron. It going to be soooooooo cooool!!!!

I can't wait to see how PJ handles the Paths of the Dead. It's a part of the book that gave me chills when I first read it. You never know how the CG imaging is going to look and I would hate for it not to come off well.

About the Grey Havens, this is probably an unwelcome guess, but I'm thinking that perhaps they will not be included. It would be much easier on time constraints if the hobbits arrived safely back in Hobbiton, Sam got married, and Frodo settled down to finish the Red Book. The End. It's a sad idea, but very much possible.<P>Iarwain

Nope, thats not how its going down. Thats how they are ending the movie, with a shot of the gray havens. They aren't taking it out. I mean they already too out the scourching of the shire if they took GH out i think that they would fear for their lives. Us tolkien fans would riae up or something.(hhehehehehehhe)

Hey! Dunno if anyones mentioned this yet, but I heard they're not putting in the scouring of the Shire. THEY BETTER BE!!!! Please prove this rumour wrong!!!!

Peter Jackson has already said that the scenes in the Grey Havens are his favorites from the all the films (that must mean they are pretty good *crosses fingers*) And How could they forget that part, that was the part when I read the book that I was going "No, you can't go". It is one of the main parts, and the question is if they did get rid of that part (which they would never do, Peter Jackson is not that dumb, *thinks* well he did do that Faramir part) what would they put there instead? Another battle? Frodo going to the Shire and marrying a hobbit lass? I don't know.

Oh and <B>Arwen_Evenstar</B> the Scouring is not going to be there. The filmakers annouced about a year ago that it was not going to be part of the films. They decided that they wanted to get the films down to a main storyline. Frodo going to Mordor, Aragorn, you know the deal. They thought that the Scouring would kind of come out of the blue, and the parts of the audience that had not read the book would not understand what was going on. Because truely they did not give that much background about the Shire, they only gave the information that was absolutely necessary.<BR>And I also got confirmation about this when I sat in on the Q and A session at Ringcon with Brad Dourif who plays Wormtounge. One of the people asked about the end of the book and his charater and the Scouring. And he said that they never filmed any scenes for anything like that. He knew about that part, and he had to break it to this person that one of his favorite parts would not be in the films.

Oh, Tigerlily I agree! I would be so dissapointed if they left out Elladen and Elrohir! I think we've had enough of Arwen as far any scene irrelevant to her romance with Aragorn goes....as long as they keep her in her rightful place as Aragorn's love, that fine. But Elladen and Elrohir need to be brought in....I mean, they already replaced Glorfindel in FOTR with Arwen....that really sucked in a way because I wanted to see what Glrofindel would be like...

I wouldn't get my hopes up too much. I would suspect that if they were going to use them, they would have mentioned in the films by now that Elrond has sons.<P>H.C.

Yes, I agree, their time passed in TTT, when they did not bring the aid of the Dunedain. Those danged elves came instead! <P>They might accompany Elrond to Minas Tirith after the destruction of the ring, but even then they probably won't be named.<P>Iarwain

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It always amuses me when we get casting information for a film that was shot almost 3 years ago and will be released in a little less than 9 months from now. Kiwi actor Ian Hughes' website on aucklandactors.co.nz has his last credit to be the part of BEREGOND in ROTK. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><A HREF="http://www.aucklandactors.co.nz/ViewActorFrame.pl?objectID=276" TARGET=_blank>More</A>

Where did you get that quote from Arwen? That's awesome. I would take Beregond over Imrahil any day of the week.<P><A HREF="http://aucklandactors.co.nz/ViewActorFrame.pl?objectID=276" TARGET=_blank>Ian Hughes:</A> Read the top line of his filmography.<P>H.C.

HCIsland: Most of my information on the movies comes from <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/" TARGET=_blank>theonering.net</A> <P>They always have lots of information about the movies on their front page. They usually have something new everyday!

I do not know if anyone has seen this before, but here it is: <A HREF="http://www.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_rotk.cfm" TARGET=_blank>Complete list of RotK movie changes</A><BR>Ii looks interesting, or at least from the bit I have seen. I am not sure if this information is to be trusted, but you can decide for yourselves.<BR>~M

Morquesse: I at least have seen that before. You can also look at the changes for TTT, most of them were accurate, however, it does change. If you look at the bottom of the page, there are several changes that have been decided to be false. We of course won't know for sure until December! Only 9 mounths to go!

I shouldn't have looked at that link, Morquesse! I'm going to see FotR again tonight. Wow, that just ruined my day. (It isn't your fault, so don't worry about it, I'm glad I know about the changes now. I won't be depressed when I discover in eight months that RotK is complete crap. ) Yet again, it looks that they have flattened the plot, I've lost all hope in PJ.<P>Iarwain

But don't u think Elladen and Elrohir would have to turn up since they do accompany Aragorn in the Paths of the Dead?( I'm dying to see this!!!! ) And they bring the Dunedain with them.....that's big, they'd have to put the Peredhel twins in ROTK.....or they could just replace them with friggin' Arwen.....lol, nothing against Arwen, she's awesome and beautiful and stuff but why can't they let everyone have their own rightful part? <BR> And I'm still peeved about my gorgeous Glorfindel!!!!!

Thanks for the link, Morquesse.<P>One that I don't understand is the suggestion that Aragorn uses the Palantir in Minas Tirith <B>after</B> the Battle of Pelennor Fields. Surely it is Argorn's use of the Palantir while in Rohan that forces Sauron to act earlier than he would otherwise have done and move on Minas Tirith, thus prompting the Battle of Pelennor Fields.<P>Also, it says that Arwen helps Aragorn to use the Palantir, but it also says that she doesn't turn up in Gondor until his coronation. If he uses the Palantir in Minas Tirith, one of those must be wrong.

If they were going to have Elrond's sons, they would have introduced them in the special edition of FoTR. Don't get your hopes up.<P>I think we need to give PJ a break (I feel like I'm perpetually saying this ). I count 26 named characters with lines that have been introduced so far. Here's the list.<P>Aragorn, Arwen, Bilbo, Boromir, Celeborn, Denethor, Elrond, Eomer, Eowyn, Faramir, Frodo, Galadriel, Gandalf, Gimli, Gollum, Haldir, Hama, Legolas, Merry, Pippin, Sam, Saruman, Sauron, Theoden, Treebeard, Wormtongue.<P>On top of that I count 32 places that are mentioned by name and I'm likely missing some.<P>The Shire, Hobbiton, Bag End, Bree, The Prancing Pony, Midgewater Marshes, Amon Sul, Rivendell, Imladris, Caradhras, Moria, Khazad-dum, Dwarrowdelf, Isengard, Lorien, Argonath, Caras Galadhon, Amon Hen, Rauros, Emyn Muil, Dead Marshes, Mordor, Black Gates, Ithilien, Osgiliath, Rohan, Fangorn, Edoras, Helm's Deep, Westmarch, Barad-dur, Mount Doom.<P>There is simply not another movie in history that compares to this in complexity. Even interpretations of the Bible don't run near this level of detail and I can guarentee you there are more people familiar with that story then Tolkien's.<P>PJ is pushing as much as he possibly can into these films. He is stretching the envelope to its very limit and the fact that these movies are even comprehensible to someone who has not read the books is an accomplishment. That both these films have been widely hailed as masterpieces and have been nominated for best picture academy awards (among numerous others) is nothing short of brilliant.<P>I can understand people disagreeing with character and plot changes, in fact I agree with some of them, but to complain about the absence of minor characters that are not necessary for progressing the plot in a film that already has more names and places than any other film in history ... I'm sorry, I just can't understand that.<P>There is not a single director on this planet that would be capable and willing of getting the funding to make a series of movies of the detail that you are asked for. This is as good as it gets. If you want more, well I can wish for wings to sprout out of my shoulders, but I ain't gonna get them.<P>H.C.

Thank you for saying that HCIsland. Nearly everyone that loved the films would have sayed it if they had the right words for it.