No.

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
What was the actual point of your response?

Well since we're all looking for a partner or two, it should be normal.

edit: xed with Fea

I understand, and I agree to an extent. Like, I can understand why you say that but I'm not sure if Mac really strikes me as suspicious.

Quite a jumpy statement.


edit: xed with Agan

Okay I have to be leaving soon so I'll give you my analysis so far.

Legate: Back to his usual self: giving good analysis and entering in the disscussion to help stimulate a chance of catching a real wolf.

Lommy: Silly.:p:D

Aganzir: Trying to sound like she's helping everyone by posting and showing that she's here. Her posts are somewhat helpful, but they're mostly full of petty arguments on the best way to capture a wolf (something along those lines).

Rikae: No clue yet, seems intent on getting Mac lynched.

That's it, I'll be back later.:)

EDIT: Xed 2Aganzir, 1Fea, 2Lommy

Hmm...
just wanted to add, "jumpiness" is a very easy accusation to use against Mac, since he tends to respond that way regardless of his role. Not saying he's not suspicious, but since we almost certainly have baddies going after each other in this game...

Agan -
First, sure, let's lynch the quiet ones - I'm fine with that (but it's it Noggie's job to bring that up?)
Second - Sally's rhetorical questions aren't very helpful (I mean, seriously, who's going to suspect Legate for having a "nice little list"?), but seem to be something she uses fairly often, baddie or innocent.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since Fea, who makes me wonder if she's ever read a scholarly article on literary theory. ;)

Well, we don't get to know the rules, but surely we are not in total darkness even now. We know there are lovers. We know there are no werewolves as such. It's almost safe to assume that we have some gifted. So there is stuff to discuss. (But we have done quite a lot of that already, yes, and I'm not implying we should do more of it.) And besides, you didn't ask "what does it matter if we talk about the roles" but "what does it matter whether we know them or not", and there's a big difference.


edit: xed with Groin and Rikae

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...

EDIT: X'd with Lommy.

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

It goes along with the phantom's theory of lists: only ordinary villagers can create suspicion lists without motive. A bad guy creating a suspicion list must by definition use the list to cast suspicion intentionally. By the same principle, a bad guy creating hypothetical constructions of game roles can't possible hurt us while it can very easily give us information.

Ergo, anybody denying the validity of creating hypothetical lists either doesn't understand the significance of seeking motive, or doesn't want to have to construct posts which look more innocent than they are.

Okay, in an attempt to get the game straight...

We have an unknown amount of lovers, but after the Night phase we will have a somewhat idea of how many there are. Then again, how will we know if a player's been successfully protected by the ranger? Or what happens if two pairs of lovers choose the same kill...will only that player die or will one pair get to pick again? Also, if one pair of lovers kills the another pair, does the doomed pair still get to kill?

The rules here are rather vague, and it seems as usual I'm confused... :rolleyes:

The idea that each pair gets a separate kill is a bit scary...the Nights could end up as quite a slaughter. Then again, the fact that the lovers go down together means that we only have to kill half of how many baddies there are out there...which I suppose evens things up a bit.

Btw, the Day might've started out quiet, but now it's so active I'm having trouble keeping up with everyone. :D

EDIT: X-ed with a gazillion posts...

An excellent point - shame you had to mention it.

There are lovers who kill, that much should be clear although Di hasn't dold anything, and in my opinion that's all we need to know. How does speculating about what roles there might or might not be help to make a valid starting point? Do you want to make a dozen different theories about what roles there are, and then a few theories about how different players would fit in those roles?

Why?

It came from my head and the point is that there might be anything and we wouldn't get to know it so why speculate at all.

edit: xed since Fea

Am I wrong to assume that this game is supposed to go something similar to Di's last game, and in that game weren't there multiple lovers working in pairs? Or perhaps we should completely throw that last game out the window and assume that anything is possible?

Okay, Brinn, in an attempt to get this game straight ;) I will answer your questions and tell what I think...

In a vast majority of the ww games I've played in, the succesfull protection can be read in the narration.

It would make far more sense to me that only the one person would die. I mean, why would one pair get another chance then? And how would it be determined which one will get the new kill? The ones who submitted their kill later? What if tha players are not around to give a new name? Too complicated, I say.

I would assume that they would.


edit: xed with Rikae, Agan and Brinn

But the worse it would be if we did not manage to lynch any. So, let's beware!

One note, Groin. In the last game, I was a Wolf only on Day 3. Before that, I was completely innocent.

I don't think so. If there are any Gifteds, that would be a big bonus, and an important thing to know. Because otherwise, we may lynch "weird" people who are behaving unusually just because they are Gifted.

EDIT: Oh my, x-ed since somewhere on the previous page.

:mad:
:p
:D

Yellow light means -go very, very fast.

Methinks Aganzir, Macalaure, and Lommy are all baddies of some sort. I have a pesky 'lil paper to write on Machiavelli (who is a cobbler), ya know, so I'm going to have to skedaddle for a bit, gosh darnit, but if I keep talking like this, well, heck, somebody might make me vice president.

Being truthful doesn't make the strategy any less effective.

If we let people be silent by agreeing that there's nothing worth discussing, we have nothing to go on. If we force discussion about a specific topic, we force what will essentially be a series of lies from people who know more than everybody else about what's going on. The more lies a person is forced to tell, the easier it is to pick out inconsistencies, as well as it being easier to glean knowledge we probably wouldn't otherwise have. Plus creative thought spawns creative thought.

Ergo, my suspicion is:

There are no werewolves, but there are presumably bad guys who exist as metaphorical werewolves as we know them. There are lovers for at least a portion of the bad guys. The bad guys may or may not (as Agan pointed out) work with both each other and their lovers: so there may be a tangled web of non-ordos with victory in mind, trying to kill everybody but themselves by manipulating others. Does that make sense? I think it does, but I'm not sure.

In that hypothetical situation, say there are like four wolves, all of whom can work together. And we know there's at least one lover, because this is a lovers game. So of those wolves, in this situation, one of them is working with the wolves to kill all of the ordos except for the lover. So in this case, as I see it, the lover-wolf would have to be careful not to reveal which ordo is the lover, because the wolves don't want them to win any more than they want the ordos to. My god this is complicated.

Okay so, so far if we go with Agan's theory that there's a creature team as well as individual sets of lovers, than the bad guys should be even more crippling to each other because they'd have to work together while trying not to. I wish I could be a fly on the wall for those PM sessions if that's a reality. Can you imagine?

Agan, just questioning: was there something you read that made you suspect there might be both a 'wolf' team as well as individual lovers? Was that something that happened in the last game?

You take the defensive mode rather quickly. Why would anyone want to lynch you just because you speculate a little about gifteds in the beginning of Day1? Isn't that normal?

And your latest post too, it's so defensive. You are playing oddly.


edit: xed with Legate, Rikae and Fea

I really doubt that. I was a wolf once in a game where roles were kept secret - we knew there was another wolf team but the village didn't, so we had to pay extra attention so as not to slip anything (and we succeeded in that). I don't think our baddies would be any less careful.

She said some changes might be introduced but didn't tell anything more. It might or might not be like the last game. We can't know.

edit: xed since Legate

No. It was something that occurred to me while I was writing the very post in which I mentioned it. And no, it's not a theory I would really believe in unless I am proven otherwise. I didn't play in the last game but apparently there were just separate lover pairs.

The point was not that someone would want to lynch me because of speculating about gifteds, the point was that today I am too talkative to be silenced but by death. :p I should probably have said "if someone has a problem with me talking and being annoying and demanding all the attention &c."

But we won't know if there are gifteds, and we can lynch gifteds without knowing they are gifted anyway. Like I could be a gifted and since I won't be around at deadline you could just lynch me (not that I'd be a gifted - I'm not).

Hah now I know what's the problem with me! My avvie! Lommy once said she can't take anything I say seriously while I have this avatar.

Aganzir actually looks more like innocent to me lately.

Rikae looks more like innocent to me now, too.

Fea seems to look also innocentish to me.

Anyway:

But about this, I am not so sure. I think such slips may actually happen.

EDIT: Great! At last I didn't crosspost with anybody.

Only skim-read so far - I'll read everything closely later tonight.
But I am presuming, for the sake of my sanity, that Di linked to her previous rules for a reason, in that they have some bearing on the current game.

But I don't wonder that this game feels weird. Even if the rules are the same as previously, we will, as Nogs has already shown, face carnage tonight. So there's a certain devil-may-care, eat-drink-and-be-merry-for-tomorrow-we-die feeling about the place. :smokin:

All I ever ask for in life... :rolleyes:

And I said it's possible but very unlikely. If you have to keep in your mind all the time that you know more than the rest, would it make you more careful? And mind you, the game I was speaking of had three newbie wolves and no one slipped anything.

edit: xed with Lal and Fea

Wait, one thing. Somehow I did not notice this one before (I probably crossposted with it, later thinking it was the one I already read). What you say does not make sense (syntactically, semantically) with what you reply to. I said: it will be good to know what roles are around, f.ex. if we have Gifteds. Because for example, had I known for sure that there are NO Gifteds in this game now, I would not have any doubts if I found somebody behaving really, really weirdly, and I would lynch him rightaway. But if I knew there are Gifteds, I could start to ponder whether this weirdness is not a Giftedness instead of Wolfiness.
Not sure what you were supposed to say by the comment.

Now thinking of it again, thank you for saying it. Now it makes sense.

Sorry for getting here late...
 

After what happened last game I find it difficult to trust either Legate or Lommy, but I won't let that bias me. Agan seems jumpy, Legate the guy with a massive brain he always is, and Mac and Rikae ready to go for Agan's throat. The others have made to few (if any) posts for me to make any decisions off of.
Tinkertetonk. Be back soon.

Err in truth I'm not sure. My thinking process goes in Finnish and I'm positive that when I don't pay too much attention to what I write, at least half of my thoughts are lost in translation. And now that I read it, it doesn't make sense to me either.

I suppose the main point was that there's no way we could find out what gifteds there are, if there are any. Ahh and also I had myself as an example of someone who's behaving weirdly, and meant that if I was a gifted instead of just weird and you had a bandwagon against me towards the end of the day when I would be fast asleep, I wouldn't have a chance to come out before it would be too late.
Okay in truth I have no idea where I was getting at with that post.

edit: xed with Gollum

ooops. :D

Of course vague suspicions aren't worth much, but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?

Talking about useless bandwaggons: I'd like to jump on Aganzir's against Sally.

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).

Your reasons please.

Oh and before long you will probably find out that my throat is very popular among these lonely people. Fetishists...

edit: garr xed with Mac

Yes, and are you aware that until the last day when I was rightfully lynched, I was a wrongfully suspected innocent? :rolleyes: ;)

EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

Hey darling it's not a bandwagon, it's random suspicion though the grounds could be called feeble since it's only this early in the game (but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?). If you go back and read like five games I've last been playing you can see similar suspicions regardless of what my role has been.

Lommy is always crazy (well, at least in WW)

But won't there also be more chance of them killing each other (If it's like the last game). Well, it's all shrouded in mystery. But there's no use speculating on what roles there are today, because we have nothing to go on, and we might just make it harder for ourselves.

I'll be back after reading the thread

Thanks a lot, darling.

Well, anyway - I'm finally here and I can say right away that I don't suspect anyone. :rolleyes: Maybe I'll just make a list.
Groin - No read.
Lommy - Basic lommism, meaning that she feels innocentish but knowing her she could as well be a naughty evil thing who is laughing at us all.
Aganzir - She's indeed playing a bit oddly. Maybe she's a cobbler. :p She tends to be more smooth as a real baddie and certainly more smooth as a gifted. but then somehow she doesn't feel like an ordo.
Legate - That guy is plain silly. :p Which means that I should be worried - he plays very differently from what I remember, or at least gives different vibes. He seems somehow more joking and absurd and cheerful than he usually does in WW. As though he had nothing in the world to worry about.. Then another thing related to Legate - I don't know why, but I'm a bit uneasy with the seeming air of"Oooh Legate he's a good wise player let's listen to what he says!" around. Not that we shouldn't listen to him also, but if he's a baddie that attitude can be pretty dangerous.
Kitanna - No read.
Gollum - No read.
Nogrod - Has been surprisingly quiet, I wonder if this is again one of those games where he promises to talk less...
Brinniel - Nice and confused, as always. No idea of what her role could be.
Sally - No idea.
Shasta - Where is he?
Gwath - Where is he?
Rikae - A hard case. No idea as yet.
Mac - Seems innocentish?
McCaber - Where is he?
Fea - I haven't the foggiest idea, could be anything.
Eönwë - No read.
Lalaith - Where is she?
Eomer - Where is he?

This is all I can come up with this far. Nice jokes at the beginning, guys.
Ahem.

Maybe I'll just shut up when I have nothing more to say.


EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

I said "useless bandwaggon" as a joke, what I just meant was: I agree with your point. I wonder... what I said was absolutely no attack against you, why did you defend yourself? You confused me there, honey.

I definitely agree, but then on the other hand we all know those young men are crazy about him. ;) I guess we just have to understand them...

Anyway there was especially this:
Sorry if I overestimate myself but I don't really see how Legate was at that point so much more helpful than I. Yes I admit I was joking more than he but still. It's the way you have formulated the post; Legate is helping and clever while I try to sound helpful (instead of actually trying to be helpful) and my arguments are petty (although I was joking, I wasn't doing it all the time).

Aren't you being jumpy? Picking out anyone who might be the slightest bit suspicious, or just simply wants to defend themselves so early in the game (After all, despite what I said in my above post, it's better- or at least more sensible- if we kill the wolves now. Both ways its down to luck and vague suspicions, at least this early in the game).

I'm definitely going to x-post so I won't even bother writing who with.

edit: turns out it's only Aganzir.

I didn't get your joke, bunny, and thought it was a weak point since you had just said yourself that you posted something because it was all that you had.

edit: xed with Eönwë

First she disassociates herself from him by suspecting him, then she defends him. But would Di really make them a couple just to tease us?

x-ed with Agan again

I just really can't!

I'm not trying to make enemies with her! Do you want proof? For I was just thinking that she looks more and more innocent as the Day proceeds. ;)

Really too bad - I first read "Fenrisists" and thought "ha! caught you!"... :D

Why thank you. :D

Well, I wouldn't be worried - it's less than 9pm, he could still be at work and returning about this time and then be around here until the wee hours of the morning... Haha.

No, I'm merely trying to find suspiciousish behaviour. Too bad if there isn't very much of it at this phase yet.

Now that I've been thinking, I've got the feeling there's something odd about Rikae.

Is it me, or is it just us Europeans at this time of day (night- well, 7 here, but it's dark).

Oh the carnage...at least a pair of lovers was killed, right? (insert hopeful smile)

Curse that busy schedule of mine. :p

About Mac.
About Agan
Agan again...
There seems to be a lot of vengeance out in this village. I feel left out because I don't have anyone to take revenge out on.

But in seriousness (even if for a moment) is the idea that Lommy and Legate had jumped out to a few people. I want to take a look into those who suggested it and Lommy and Legate themselves. I see nothing particularly odd about either so I'd like to see what makes them so suspicious to the few (sally and Mac I remember off the bat) who brought them up.

Also this from Rikae makes me wonder:
Very easily her attempt to see Mac lynched is a joke, but at the same time...
So her suspicions of Mac are half-serious. What worries me about this is it feels like a bluff. Something like "Well, I'm obviously innocent and you'll completely and utterly regret lynching me, so don't even try." At first glance the first quote from Rikae didn't seem all that bad, but as I reread it I started to worry. It looks like Rikae is trying a bit too hard to cement herself as an innocent.

I get what you're saying, but given how I feel about Rikae's "accusation", I don't know how suspicious Mac really is. Maybe Mac was jumpy, but innocents can get jumpy and defensive too.

I am still frantically trying to read through the posts, but I have to attend to a few other things first. I will probably vote in a little less than an hour and a half, hopefully I'll get a chance to look at those who pointed out Lommy and Legate.