Maybe. So far, most people who mentioned Rikae (including me) said neither that she's innocent nor that she's evil. Right now (for a good reason, because there's nothing else to say) most are sitting on fences, and could easily justify a vote for her. Discussing (un-)giftedness in such a situation is suspicious, I think.

I did not defend her, or at least I didn't intend to. Note that I did not comment on the reasons anybody found her suspicious or not. All I said was that the ways some people commented on Rikae were telling. Also, I can't find anything else to go after at this point. :rolleyes:

I do have to disagree with this. I really doubt Rikae is a gifted; why would she want to confuse the village when she is so important to them? Of course, this doesn't make an ordinary Rikae expendable. No ordinaries are expendable. But we're not even sure Rikae is an ordinary innocent.

I have to go to class. For awhile I was thinking about taking the laptop with me, but even then I probably couldn't post without my professor noticing I wasn't paying attention. I get out 15 minutes before deadline, so there is a possibility I'll be back before deadline, but that's a bit risky. So it's best I vote early:

++Rikae

I'm not entirely confident, but she is the most suspicious right now. If we wait until Day 2, a balrog Rikae could come back and say she did it because she didn't have time and didn't have any suspects, sounding entirely innocent all of sudden. I'm not sure I want to risk that.

Nogrod is my second-choice suspect mainly for his earlier posts, but there really isn't enough evidence to back up my suspicions at the moment.

I'm a bit worried about Kath and here are my reasons for it. Nb. it's not the fact that she voted me but because of the way she did it.

Here's Kath's "argument" in full:
1. The argument of posting a lot. Sham in two ways. Firstly at that time I had posted quite moderately. Secondly she should know as a veteran to these games that the villages become absolutely boring after a few days if all the more active people are lynched & killed early on. And what's better place for baddies to be than a silent village? And if it was a joke? Joking that way and leading it to a vote is a bit too risky on Day1 for anyone actually interested about the fate of the innocents.

2. Posting nothing while posting a lot -argument. Just look what had been posted overall at the time I was online last night (RL). There wasn't much to say at that time (my last was post #16). So pretty ridiculous argument indeed. And if this wouldn't be a game I might be a bit insulted when someone says that my posting is noncommittal or unfruitful or not saying anything... :) But yeah, it's a game so no problem there.

3. Seeing balrogs everywhere -argument. An innocent needs to see balrogs everywhere. Only by looking at the possible balrogs around oneself can one find hints about there actually being one there. It's only the balrogs who don't need to see possible enemies everywhere as they know where they are unlike us. Kath knows this very well.

4. The argument of the playting style. Which basically is no argument on anything.

So why do I wish to bring all this forwards? Because all of Kath's "arguments" are sham and she is experienced enough to know it. That means she has other motives to get rid of me in this game. Fabricating arguments like this to affect the village is most fishy indeed. Also I'm reading a malicious intent behind her words (especially points 1. & 3.).

Hmm... we all know the roles of Ordinary Civilians before we even begun this madness and for stating that out loud seems like someone trying to be on the nice side of ordinaries... congrats Brinniel you just made my suspect list!

Kath doesn't strike me as anything right now... a very stupid WereBalrog move if she was it by striking Nogrod right away...i feel we let her live for today, if she does this burst of randomness again tomorrow then i will have no guilt voting her mainly as a nuisance.

But for my vote, if Rikae really wants to commit suicide then sure for nobody else has any sufficent misgivings towards them.


Oh and Brinniel is on my list not for voting Rikae but for taking advantage of that if Rikae indeed turns to be an innocent, then Brinniel can play off that again...

++Rikae

That happens... but you must admit your post ends up saying that we should not vote for Rikae as that would be voting without leaving a trace... :)

You're right in doing that and it's a good viewpoint but you should also note that most of the people do not wish to restate things some others have already pointed out. It would be a boring read indeed if everyone always told all they thought even if others had stated that already (I know I'm guilty of this sometimes but I have tried to avoid it lately). So when making this kind of comparisons one would need to take account also of when people have posted their points and to see which points had already been made a few times before.


I'm a bit weary of Gil's last post. I don't seem to understand any of his arguments or his vote. So is he just confused - or am I confused - or is there something else in there as well? That needs to be thought.

The quality of nothing hath not such need to hide itself.
Nothing will come from nothing, Brinniel, and a cobbler is not nothing, but rather a tasty half-baked dessert.
I have always felt that those who declare themselves innocent are newbies, or guilty, though this does not mean that newbies are not guilty. Some newbies may seem less new than they seem; and yet post too much of the obvious. If I was not a balrog, I would suspect such.
Macalaure is too kind - but that is only because he is the cobbler-lover. Do not listen to him.
Legate especially should not listen to all he hears, and can say what he likes about what he knows no more of than he does of pies. If death at night, at the hands of baddies, is lynching, then I admit was lynched in WW XXX.
Those who bark up the wrong tree are often of the canine variety, but we have balrogs here, so I don't know... I don't know.
Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose... :) ... good night, sweet ladies, goodnight.

EDIT - X'd with Brinn, Nog, Mac, Gil & Nog (I think that's all)

Umm... Gil, you're putting yourself into the situation you're saying that Brinniel is in.

If Rikae is Innocent, you'll be able to attack Brinniel with the explanation you just gave us.

Looks pretty Balrogish to me.


I don't agree about Kath, Nogrod. She gives me the same vibes as in my first game, modded by Glirdan, where she was an ordo. I won't vote for her toDay.

Xd with Nogrod and Rikae there.

What is that all about, Rikae?? If you have a role that leads you to victory by being lynched the first, I think you'll achieve your goal. Really, what was that about??

++Rikae

An hour and a quarter to go.

Rikae -> Rikae
Kath -> Nogrod
Brinniel -> Rikae
Gil -> Rikae (Rikae3, Nogrod1)
Volo -> Rikae (Rikae4, Nogrod1)

Naria has yet to enter the stage. It's been a long time she has been with us and it would be sad to lose her immediately but then again if she won't play then it wouldn't be the worst choice we can make.

Shasta posted basically nothing but I have promised him not to vote him on Day1 in this game as he has been lynched quite a few times in a row on D1 lately. I'll stick to my word here.

I will not vote for Legate or Nerwen because of their reasonableness and good feeling they arouse in me at this stage. Just a while ago I would have included Brinn to make a trio but now I'm not so sure any more. Something broke the spell with her last post. Macalaure probably won't receive my vote either toDay. He's too good to be lost on some whimsy Day1 speculation.

I'm very reluctant to vote for Sally or The Might as like Kath said, lynched on Day1 in the first game you're in just sucks.

Volo I see as a bit weird but then that's what I usually get from his Day1 posting.

That leaves as my candidates for voting: Kath, Mith, Lhuna, Rikae, Gil

If I'd have to vote right now and to do it following my thoughts only it would probably be Kath.

Gil's post was somewhat fishy and strange. He's probably my candidate number two right now.

Rikae seems to play it her own way right now. It's hard to say whether she's just having fun or whether she's playing a very bold baddie - which is indeed possible. (btw. why do you Mac think that I'm too happy so that you might suspect me but Rikae doesn't raise those same thoughts? :p)

Of Mith and Lhuna I'm more unsure about. There's not much more than some bad vibes I get from them (okay a few possible points on Mith but I'd hesitate to act on them at the moment)

I do hope you others would play your cards more openly as well. A last minute frenzy seldomly results in anything good for the villagers.

EDIT: corrected the tally to include Volo's vote

Nice to see that I'm confusing you all right now, though I must onestly say I didn't really intend to.

Well, it seems that except Rikae's strange decision nothing else happened that could really make you think someone is a balrog or not. So I must admit, making the vote isn't easy, but I'll just follow my Gondolindrim instinct and vote

++Nogrod

::
Err - I think looking at Rikae was a fair p[oint in the circs ..I did only have a few minutes ... she is clearly cobblerish at best but a cobbler counts as an ordo for the village so it is not in our interests to kill her - however if she is distracting I suggest we each put her on the ignore list for the duration of the game. However behav ing thus could be a cover for a wolf or... anyway I must finish catching up since time is pressing ..and some of us have been working today.... :rolleyes:

I'm afraid we are having a contest with two innocents going on... I don't know about Rikae but as I've said I'm not very comfortable with lynching her as we'd have better candidates out there.

And we're doing the classical mistake of lazily voting for the easy targets ie. those who have talked / those who have been talked about. With possibly the balrogs giving the boost at the right moments.

Well all those alive should think of these toMorrow. And the innocents should take a look on the mirror...

I'd go for Kath. With her I think we might have a go for a balrog - or at least the cobbler. Just check my post #43 for some points I think will actually hold. She clearly has no arguments and even jokes about them and still votes. She's clever enough to know what she is doing. Thence my suspicions for it doesn't look like action from someone who has the well-being of the village in her sight.

Or Gil then? His post fills all the requirements of jumping on the train already running with some totally baffling arguments. And if he's innocent and acts like that (looks at the bandwagon moving and jumps along) he's as dangerous to the village as the balrogs during the Day. What I mean is I'd risk Gil for Rikae thinking of the Days to come.

The silent balrogs seem to have won the Day once again which is a pity indeed.

Look, Rikae, I wasn't going to do anything until you'd had a chance to speak for yourself. Now that you have... I've really very little idea what you are or what you're trying to achieve.

You're certainly not making any effort to get your neck out of the noose. Either you're treating the whole thing as a joke, or you think you're done for anyway so there's no point resisting, or you really are deliberately trying to get lynched.

I can't say that you or anyone else has done anything that definitely says "balrog" to me– but time is running out. In the absence of a better candidate–

++Rikae

I really don't like Nogrod using me as his human shield and trying to create an illusion mass of suspicion about me when there has been very little save his. Attack the best form of defence methinks... And he is doing that pseudo helpful thing... .my guess is he could well be a gung-ho wolf becaus of his possible major absence later in the game.

Kath - I don't think any of the new players have done anything to deserve a vote - in fact they have spoken intelligently and reasonably.

I am tempted to keep Rikae for the entertainment value .... we can always deal with her later .....

Rikae -> Rikae
Kath -> Nogrod
Brinniel -> Rikae
Gil -> Rikae (Rikae3, Nogrod1)
Volo -> Rikae (Rikae4, Nogrod1)
The Might -> Nogrod (Rikae 4, Nogrod2)
Nerwen -> Rikae (Rikae5, Nogrod2)

Not voted yet: Legate, Lhuna, Mac, Mith, Naria, Nogrod, Sally, Shasta

Of these Naria is a questionmark.

But that would leave still seven votes to come. With seven votes we can change the situation.

Speak up people. Don't just pop in with a vote.

I'd encourage everyone to take a close look toMorrow at those who just popped in and voted. That betrays an attitude that says "I'm actually not interested about our chances but wish to wash my hands from it". A balrog would think like that.

I find Gil's criticism of Kath a bit suspicious... I know to my cost that a WereKath is nigh on incapapble of putting a paw wrong:(

So is it just you and me once again around Mith? Looks pretty familiar...

That's basically not true but you're still reading a bit too much on this. Our foremost goal is to get either a balrog toDay or at least not to weaken our chances in Days to come. That's why I've not followed my initial suspicions on you any further as they're weak indeed (which I have confessed a couple of times already).

Let's make a frank comparison, shall we? :)

In case you end up following these non-arguments and lynch me I better start preparing something like a testament for toMorrow that will be the only document from toDay you can trust... :(
(Yeah, I may be wrong like anyone else but you will know then there is no malice behind it.)

And really dashing in and voting for Rikae is a total cop out vote ....

I see Nogrod is again asking for a third candidate but does not get the ball rolling... the last time he did that I recall he was a wolf (ok so was I but I was still right ;) )*



*NB for Newcomers - SpM's game had two opposing teams of wolves....

[QUOTE=Nogrod;535904]
That's basically not true but you're still reading a bit too much on this. Our foremost goal is to get either a balrog toDay or at least not to weaken our chances in Days to come. That's why I've not followed my initial suspicions on you any further as they're weak indeed (which I have confessed a couple of times already).

So why repeat them time and time again? To start a bandwaggon against me? Getting me lynched will not help the village ....it really is unreasonably to grumble that noone talks and then attacking anyone who talks despite material as suspicious...

Okay folks, with the little time that remains and the fact that I was able to just skim through the posts that appeared since my last visit, I'll probably leave long analyses for the next day - providing that I'm here toMorrow, of course.

Only a few words about Rikae. If anything seemed fishy from the posts around her, then it was Mac's reaction. I don't think he defended her at all, as anyway he himself said. But that reaction had sort of negative-tone against those who commented around her. I indeed understood Volo's words as "Don't kill her at night", as he put it later, and there are things that a gentleman just does not speak about - that is, like playing with the idea that she's a gifted. Which was started by Mac, not Volo, from my point of view - if I thought that Rikae could be a gifted, I'd say exactly what Volo did. Nevertheless, Rikae's behavior is still very strange (her answer is not an answer at all), so it just looks that she's a cobbler or whatever kind of madness. So probably I'm going to vote for her - with hope that we get rid of a cobbler by this.

Swiftly concerning some others. Kath was a little bit jumpy to my liking. But given that there's only one post from her, AND with a vote, which really seems that she was in a hurry, I'm not going to vote her toDay, but will check on her toMorrow. Another slightly suspicious person to me is Mac, whom I already mentioned (see above).
I don't see anything much suspicious on Nogrod this far (however he is not an easy bit, so...).
And also I could note that The Might's last appearance makes the impression of the "cloak and dagger"-type person. I mean, he appears,says nothing and stabs. But okay, let's quit this and wait for better time.

Guess I x-ed with quite some people and maybe even votes, but whatever...

I may need that vote to save myself if things go really bad for I know I'm innocent and then it's better to try Rikae instead if I can do it.

Are we speaking the same language? I've said it over and over again that I have no reason to try to lynch you as things stand right now. I might have those thoughts during the first part of the Day but not so much any more... unlessl you continue in this manner... :confused:

All right, I suppose I owe it to the village to say something somewhat straight.
I was just having a little fun. Here you go again, bandwaggoning on day one against the most obvious person. When will you people learn? Going for the person who looks most odd is almost always a mistake; it also tends to flatten the game.
I suspect Nerwen. I also somewhat suspect Macalaure; he's too nice. That said, an innocent Nogrod is more valuable than I am, and he looks innocent to me - so you should probably lynch me anyway.

Hmm... interesting proposal, Nogrod, about another lynchee. But, I'm afraid, that there will be hard time choosing which one. Out of my suspects, for example, I'd feel the most now to vote Mac, but even if I did, I doubt there would have been enough votes for him, as he is certainly not going to vote himself... Not to say that I would, because my suspicion on him is based just on the last events, maybe I will look at him totally differently when I have time to read all his posts in quiet and calm state.

One more thing concerning Rikae, or another reason to vote her. I am a little bit afraid that if she remains an enigma and remains alive, or even worse, if she's a cobbler and remains alive, she will only make the situation troublesome as she will spread our forces, so to say. We will still have this "What is she? Is she a cobbler?" back in our minds, and we'll spend a large part of discussion about that. Of course getting a balrog on the first day would be nice, and I am somewhat reluctant to think that she is one, but if she is a cobbler, then on the first day, it's in fact still quite a success, or at least small compensation for not catching a balrog.

At least 3 mentions in the past couple of hours.... it is a drip effect .....good wolf tactics....

But Gil is as suspicious as ever and it is very seldom a bad move to resolve the perrenial gil problem early.,.but I don't think that is a goer...

Rikae is a very bold player ..... so bold I wonder if there isn't something special going on - we have not had full disclosure ..so if it is her or you Nogrod,it will be you...

Cross post .... with Rikae and Legate ........ hmm

Legate ..if Rikae was to survive the Seer would probably choose her to dream of.. Rikae is right ther has been a lot of laziness today.. classic Day 1

Well to late to get a swing vote for Gil so

++ Nogrod

Category 1.

Kath is the most suspicious to me. I've told you why already.

Mith also gives me bad vibes again. She may not be a balrog but her nervousness and one-track mindedness at the last moments talk on behalf of themselves. Watch out!

Mac I find a hard one to crack once again. I'd definitively have my eyes on him toMorrow. He's kind of around and gets involved but there's something fishy in there I can't formulate right now - and don't have time to go back to his posts.

Category 2.

Brinn's last addendum about me being her suspicion number two looks pretty bad as well as it was softened (based only on the early posting) but still voiced in a situation it was clear I might turn to be a real contender to be lynched. So why if not because she thought it good to see me on the lynchline (like a balrog would probably love to see as they know I'm not one of them)?

Lhuna I still feel bad about but that's only a feeling. Nothing more.

The Might and Volo just popped in to vote. I'd look after them as well.

Cat. 3.

Gil probably is more confused than guilty even if you never know.

And time's out...

Absolutely. And you think the best option is to vote for the least lazy then? :p

Hmm... Rikae, if you are innocent, you took it from the wrong end, maybe. I think we are going to learn soon. But on one thing I agree with you, about the flattening of the game. But unfortunately, it looks now that the state of the village is that questions about you won't give us rest until you are dead, if I say it very nastily.

Which is another waste. Of course the Seer won't come in front of the village and say "Rikae is this and this", because he will reveal himself. Therefore, the uncertainity would last.

So it's her or Nogrod definitively? It's clearer then...

++Rikae

Not nervous... just irritated by spin and economy with the facts... frankly I have so much on getting lynched would make my life easier but I am an ordo so shall endeavour to stay alive ...:cool:

Also, Legate... "lied" about me. I was killed by baddies in WW XXX.

I thought I'd be back sooner, but now I'm in a hurry.


leaning suspicious
Gil
Nogrod

confused about
Legate
Mith
Volo

leaning unsuspicious
Brinniel
Kath
Nerwen
Rikae
TM

unknown
Lhuna
Naria
Sally
Shasta


Nogrod is an option, but lynching Nogrod on Day One with little evidence? But Gil is a shot into the dark...

But then, there's no real option anymore but Rikae and Nogrod.

++Nogrod

++ Rikae

That's so sad it lead to this as I don't think she is a balrog (a cobbler possibly but probably not even that).

READ THIS CLOSELY!

But I know myself unlike Rikae...

I never said they would unless at dire need but a skilled seer can usually leave clues.. even if only in hindsight...

Your argument doesn't work for me...

By flattening I mean everyone cowers in a corner and does what's safe; the evil most of all... as you see.

Stop
 

Stop discussing. Rikae is dead. Narration to come.

Seconded indeed!

My apologies for not posting or voting. The college's network died about 10pm last night and I was unable to post until now. It does however appear that the day's lynching has occured, so I will now retreat back into my little cavern without discussion of the day's events.

Day1 ends
 

Ever since Rikae had had the terrible dream of Dr. Evil holding basketball games in a German university, she had known she would die soon. Thus, when Nogrod insisted the bad guys must remain on the right, she remained. ”I wholeheartedly suggest that we lynch Rikae. She has played ten games over the past year and has never been lyn...”
”Yes, she was! She's lying, she was lynched in WW XXX!” Legate interrupted.
”No, I wasn't.”
”Yes, you were.”
”No, I wasn't.”
”Yes, you were.”
”No.”
”Yes.”
”No.”
”Yes.”
”Look, this is not an argument, this is just a contradiction”, Rikae said, frustrated.
”No it isn't.”
”Yes it is.”

”Stop!” shouted thirteen voices in unison.

”Let's lynch Rikae”, suggested Nogrod.
”Let's lynch Nogrod”, suggested Kath.

”I think we should put them in a cobbler-eating contest”, Sally said.
”What? Isn't Rikae the cobbler? Are you saying they should eat Rikae?” Nerwen asked, confused.
”Cobbler is a pie”, Legate explained.
”No, it isn't”, Rikae said sourly.
”Yes, it is.”
”No, it isn't.”
”Yes, it is.”

Before Rikae could protest, Brinniel smashed a cobbler at her face. ”Eat it”, she suggested sweetly. ”And Nogrod too”, Kath insisted. So Rikae and Nogrod started eating cobblers. When they both had eaten twenty or so cobblers, Nogrod sighed. ”I can't eat any more of them. Let's call it a draw?”

But Rikae didn't hear anything, she was so enthusiastically eating the cobblers. She grew bigger and bigger and showed no sign of stopping.

”Shouldn't we stop her?” Mith asked, horrified.
”Nah, didn't we want to kill her anyway?” Volo asked, scratching his jaw.

”Rikae, no!” Mac shouted, but he was too late. Rikae, who now filled the whole cave from floor to roof, popped in a loud bang. When the pieces of Rikae landed on the stony ground alongside with the thousand crumbs of cobbler, they realised she was not a werebalrog, and the only cobblers they could identify were those eaten by Rikae and Nogrod.

There was a shocked silence. Then The Might opened his mouth. ”But the question remains...who is it?"

~*~

Dead
Thinlómien (mod) - killed by a wingless balrog on Night1
Rikae (ordo) - ate too many cobblers on Day1

Living
Brinniel
Gil-Galad
Kath
Legate of Amon Lanc
Lhunardawen
Macalaure
Mithalwen
Naria
Nerwen
Nogrod
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin
The Might
Volo


Night2 begins. Lovers and wolves, you may PM. Seer, ranger and wolves, send me your picks. Hunter, you may do that also.