Further to previous posts - if you watch a good-resolution trailer, like on <A HREF="http://www.apple.com/trailers," TARGET=_blank>www.apple.com/trailers,</A> and go frame by frame on the appearance of Shelob, right before the end of the sequence you see a great dark mass looming in the tunnel behind her - its literally only a couple of frames before the blackout...this is surely Shelob's body, and the (still large) part we see is merely her head! Nobody panic - this spider's a big-un!! Try it our for yourself, the thing is huge!

In the trailer after Legolas says "He is here." After that we get to see Saurons eye and then a guy fighting alongside the Gondorians who is this person if anyone even noticed him? It isn't Aragorn or anyone else I can think of it and it don't think its Elladan or Elrohir 'cause if it ws one of them I kind of thought they would be together. Anywone else notice that guy exactly after the eye of Sauron???

I dont know who it is either, Sleepy Ranger. I suppose it could be Prince Imrahil, but i hope not, because thats not at all as i imagined him. More than likely its nobody of importance, hence the short length of the shot...

Looks to me to be one of Faramir's men.<P>Also in the trailer is what appears to be the "Last Debate" scene which has been moved to Denethor's throne room. It's where Eomer says, "we cannot win this war through strength of arms." It certainly looks like the only people in the room are Gandalf, Aragorn, Eomer, Legolas and Gimli. This is another nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing Imrahil, Elladan, Elrohir or Halbarad. Not that there was much hope anyway.<P>H.C.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I get the feeling that grey trunk think is probably a guard or something. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, it's the White Tree. Only it's black because it is dead (as it is in the Book). You get to see more of it as that shot progresses in the trailer, and it is most definately a withered tree.<P>I am slightly concerned about this shot of an armoured Faramir on horseback. The only time in the Book that I can remember him being on horseback is when he and his men withdraw to Minas Tirith. And, if it is indeed Faramir's men that we see the Nazgul swooping on in the trailer during said withdrawal, then they look to be in their "Ranger" attire. So, when does this shot take place? Does it mean Faramir will be present at the Pelennor or the Black Gate (contrary to the Book)?<P>As for Shelob, I wholeheartedly agree with kharank. It seems clear to me that we really only see her head, but that it is followed by a vast dark abdomen. Taking this into account, she looks suitably large to me. Certainly as large as I have seen her in any Tolkien art. I am more concerned over whether her head will looks suitably spider-like. In my view, she should have multiple eyes and a pair of formidable fangs. It is not clear from the brief glimpse we get of her in the trailer, but she looks to me to have only two eyes, and a toothsome mouth rather than fangs.<P>By the way, don't fret, Balin. I saw the question that you raised, but since I had no suitable answer, I refrained from posting, as I am sure did many others.

MondieuMondieuMondieu!!!<BR>Can you tell I'm excited? I just saw the trailor for the first time. I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE MOVIE!!!<BR>The music! The costumes, the battles, the spider! Oh it's going to be wonderful!!!<P>PS-please forgive my nonsense, I was just soo happy to see it.

Ok, first of all, sorry for myself being a little bit..... well you know. <BR>Hm I still can't say what that scene is supposed to be, I still fear that it has something to do with Sauron or the Witch King. <BR>As for the man after that scene, I didn't see him, I just saw a few soldiers, so I guess this man isn't that important. <BR>But I went to the webpage and had a look at it frame by frame, and there it says<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Aragorn (voiceover): I see in your eyes, the same fear <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So we can agree on the fact that it is Aragorn speaking those words.

It would be slightly easier to guess who Legolas is referring to if we knew when/where the scene took place...<P>It looks like they're still in Rohan, so it could be the moment when Aragorn looks in the Palantir...but then why would Legolas know anything about what Aragorn saw?<P>It may be in Southern Gondor, and they may be awaiting the King of the Dead at Erech...but in the books Legolas held no fear of the Dead, so i doubt he would comment on it. <P>Or it could just be good editing, and in the film Legolas is referring to the approach of a friend, eg. Gandalf, or Elrond bearing Anduril, or (if they appear at all) the Grey Company. Then again, Legolas does look fearful...<P>I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So we can agree on the fact that it is Aragorn speaking those words. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No we can't. Even official websites get things wrong. I'm still holding out for Theoden. But, as you say, we'll find out soon enough. Anyone care to take a bet?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My favourite part by far was the little smile on Gollums face when he looked back at Sam. That was pure genius!!(kharank)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree entirely! That shot was purely haunting. I had my doubts about the third film, but I can honestly say that it looks like the greatest motion picture ever filmed. It gave me the chills to watch the trailer, particularly the aforementioned shot of Gollum, the scene with Eomer weeping and the shot of Gandalf the White riding with his staff against the Nazgul! Absolutely breathtaking footage. I daresay this trailer brought to life my wildest hopes and fantasies about the third installment of Mr. Jackson's fine trilogy, and I can only hope (and expect) that my excitement will be rewarded and the trilogy will be finished at its pique.<P>Cheers!<BR>-Angmar<p>[ October 01, 2003: Message edited by: Lord of Angmar ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I am slightly concerned about this shot of an armoured Faramir on horseback. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Faramir first comes to Minas Tirith and is sent out again to defend Osgiliath. For the guerrilla style warfare he was involved in at Osgiliath, the ranger gear we see in Towers would be appropriate. If he was knowingly going to a siege at Osgiliath, it would make sense he would be in armour.<P>So when he returns from Osgiliath the second time and is attacked by the Nazgul, it would make sense he would be wearing plate armour. This could easily be Faramir and his men charging to engage the Nazgul.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It would be slightly easier to guess who Legolas is referring to if we knew when/where the scene took place...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My guess is that they are at Minas Tirith the night after the Battle of Pelennor Fields. As for the line, it is definately part of the same scene - perhaps the same sentence - as a line earlier in the trailer, "The eye of the enemy is moving." So we have, "The eye of the enemy is moving [gap] He is here." I think the good money is on Sauron being the one refered to.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It certainly looks like the only people in the room are Gandalf, Aragorn, Eomer, Legolas and Gimli. This is another nail in the coffin for any hope of seeing Imrahil, Elladan, Elrohir or Halbarad. Not that there was much hope anyway. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Quoting myself , seesh. Just remembered that Halbarad dies at Pelennor, so it's not like he would have been part of the Last Debate anyway.<P>H.C.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> No we can't <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You're right, we can't. I too thought that it was Theoden, but since I read that on the "lordoftherings.net" site, I think that it's Aragorn.<BR>We will see.<BR>No, I won't bet on anything.

About the Faramir helmet thing, watch the end of TTT when their in Osgiliath. You'll see all the Gondor warriors armoured the same. I still firmly believe Aragorn is giving that speech. it just makes so much since. Viggo Mortenson has a strange voice. At normal volume, its very low, but when raised, the pitch changes, and towards the end you can hear it lower a bit. And Bernard Hills voice is deeper than that. <BR> <BR>Ummm... i'll have to check out the white tree and Shelob shadow thing. And since the official website is in part run by New Line, rarely would it be wrong on such a major issue. But that speech nevertheless moved me.<P> I think when you see the Nazgul sweep down on some cavalry, its the Rohirrim. The attire of the warriors i think is the kind of earthy cloaks and armour they wear. About Faramir on horseback, i never remeber him being on horse, but he was in the battle. And i do think its okay the trailer focuses a lot on Aragorn. I mean, the title of the book/movie is Return of the King, right? But yes, Frodo and Sam's part was significant, but i doubt they want to give away too much what happens. No Mt. Doom except for at the end cause thats for suspense. No Cirith Ungol most likely they don't want people to know Frodo got bit or something. i don't really know. No Shelob cause they don't want entirely to give away her appearence. I can't explain the whole Legolas, Sauron thing. I won't dwell on it though. We'll see when the movie comes out.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> So when he returns from Osgiliath the second time and is attacked by the Nazgul, it would make sense he would be wearing plate armour. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, except that ...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And, if it is indeed Faramir's men that we see the Nazgul swooping on in the trailer during said withdrawal, then they look to be in their "Ranger" attire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> but since I read that on the "lordoftherings.net" site, I think that it's Aragorn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, except that ...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Even official websites get things wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> No, I won't bet on anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can give you good odds.

cool!(by the way, its aragorn, you can tell by the voice)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And, if it is indeed Faramir's men that we see the Nazgul swooping on in the trailer during said withdrawal, then they look to be in their "Ranger" attire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just to make sure we are talking the same thing, this is the pic right?<P><A HREF="http://img-nex.theonering.net/movie/preview/images/rotk_trailer01_069.jpg" TARGET=_blank>Nazgul and Riders</A><P>There is definately at least a couple of people in plate in that picture (the high-res trailer shows this clearly). So this could easily be Faramir and his men returning to Minas Tirith after fighting in Osgiliath. Faramir would be in plate.<P>H.C.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Just to make sure we are talking the same thing, this is the pic right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, that's the one.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There is definately at least a couple of people in plate in that picture <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, on studying the shot again, I think that you may well be right, HC (unfortunately I don't have the hi-res trailer to hand, and I'm not spending 2 hours loading it again). And I am pretty sure that they are Faramir's men being swooped on by the Nazgul. It ties in with the shot we see of Gandalf riding out to aid a company of horsemen beset by Nazgul. But I remain unsure as to whether or not this is the same scene as the shot of Faramir on horseback leading a charge. That shot leads into a shot of Gondorian cavalry riding towards an Oliphant's leg, but that could just be the editing again. I hope that you are right, for I would be concerned if Faramir was present at the Pelennor when his rightful place at that time is with his pyromaniac father. <P>As regards Shelob's size, have a look at <A HREF="http://www.theonering.net/staticnews/1065026192.html" TARGET=_blank>this</A>. If this guy's right, the size looks about right to me.<P>And, since I seem to be in a minority of one here, I think that it's best if I shut up now about <I>Theoden's</I> speech.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I would be concerned if Faramir was present at the Pelennor when his rightful place at that time is with his pyromaniac father. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Absolutely.<P>Editted to add: Perhaps the Faramir charging shot has to do with a battle at Osgiliath. We never get any first hand accounts at Osgiliath, so I thing some battle scenes there would be cool.<P>H.C.<p>[ October 01, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

Hmmm, I got another question. Who is saying "The end has come...."?<P>It's in the beginning of the trailer and I have no idea whose voice that is. It sounds very rough and raspy. Who knows, maybe it's Sauron! <p>[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: Lord Melkor ]

The lordoftherings.net frame by frame has the person saying 'The end has come' by a narrator. When I first heard the trailer, I thought it was Elrond. <P>My question is, where is Sam in the Shelob's lair clip?

Well, I think Legolas saying, "He is here!" validates the Sauron appearing at the battlefield rumours, & my friend says that that final pic of Legolas yelling in battle could be when he yells to Aragorn before Sauron & Strider engage in battle...I guess I'll have to wait on that one.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My question is, where is Sam in the Shelob's lair clip?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think Sam has already gone on ahead, and I'll bet that that is a shot where he looks back.

I don't see how Legolas saying "he is here" proves that Sauron appears in battle. The shot with Legolas saying this takes place at night, and he is hooded and cloaked, not in the battle gear of later clips (granted, the gear could be under the cloak). Further, the mountains behind him look like the White Mountains as seen in The Two Towers, and certainly aren't the Ered Lithui of Mordor. And where are the rest of the army before the Morannon? THe shot of Aragorn before the Black Gate takes place during the day, and with vast armies. I'm not saying that Saurin DOESNT appear in battle, i just think that the Legolas clip doesnt really give us any proof that he will...

Saucepan Man:<P>I have always been exceptionally good at picking out voices and recognizing actors from same. Please PM me with your odds and wagering limits on that speech being Aragorn's voice. I'd like to take you up on your bet.

I'll take a piece of that action. <P>H.C.

OH MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>I LOVE THIS TRAILOR!!!!<P>Here are my thoughts:<P>First: I like Elronds lines. In TTT he was becoming an antagonist and I didn't like that. I like these lines better. <P>Those shots of the Nazgul are spectacular!!! Especially when you see the thousands of orc armies below them!<P>In the scene where Frodo and Sam are climbing up the side of the cliff, isn't that Minus Morgal behind them?? Cause I remember it was glowing grean in the first movie too.<P>I also noticed that you can see Cirith Ungul in one of the shots. (just like in the book)<P>Bad news: It looks like we're going to get some more Arwen scenes. <BR>Good news: We finaly get Narsil!!!<P>And Gollum's evil smile at Sam is priceless. I hope that sometime in the movie Sam says: "I hate to say I told you so Mr. Frodo, but I told you so."<P>And what's with that place that shoots the green lazerbeam into the sky. You see it in the begaining and then a close up later on. I don't understand where that is or what's going on.<P>I'm kindof dissapointed that Shelob is in the trailor. I was hoping she would be a suprise. Oh well. She still looks ausome.<P>And I think that the speach is said by Aragorn. Remember, he has to show is kinglyness.<P>I wonder what Galadriel is doing? I know it's got to be a dream but I'd like to know when Frodo has it and what measage Galadriel is giving.<P>I'm so thrilled to see Merry and Pippin in this movie. They promise to be great characters.<P>Finally, The final picture of Sam is so wonderfull!!! I know I will love this movie!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I don't see how Legolas saying "he is here" proves that Sauron appears in battle. The shot with Legolas saying this takes place at night, and he is hooded and cloaked, not in the battle gear of later clips<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> True, but earlier (while in the same garb) he says, "The eye is moving." Therefore I'd associate those to clips with eachother, meaning that the eye is indeed, there (which would have to prove that he well take 'humanoid form' ).<p>[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: The Only Real Estel ]

I think your stretching this Estel. "The Eye is moving," more than likely refers to the direction of it's gaze.<P>H.C.

The trailer was so awesome!!! Even though it took me over an hour to download it and another hour to download Quicktime, and then after that I couldn't figure out how to make it not be a zipped file anymore, but once I saw it, it was SO worth it !! My favorite part is Gandalf riding out with his staff glowing and Aragorn/Theoden/whoever's speech. After I saw it, I couldn't stay still. In fact, I'm still shaking after a whole 24 hours! And I'm still holding out for Imrahil. I think I saw banners of Dol Amroth in a background I downloaded that I think is of the Pelennor Fields. I don't care if it's unrealistic, I'm not giving up until the last credits roll! <P>Edit: Does anyone know if I can still download the FotR and TTT trailers and if so, where?<P>[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: Orominuialwen ]<p>[ October 02, 2003: Message edited by: Orominuialwen ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Does anyone know if I can still download the FotR and TTT trailers and if so, where?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Try <A HREF="http://www.imdb.com" TARGET=_blank>imdb</A>.<BR>I think they have movie trailers usually.<BR>Arwen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>My question is, where is Sam in the Shelob's lair clip?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nooooo, Sam hasn't gone on ahead. Remember in the book, while Frodo is running ahead with Shelob in hot pursuit, Sam is prevented from following by Gollum, who is trying to throttle him. <P>Then, thanks to a fortuitous head butt, Sam escapes Gollum's clutches and runs to Mr. Frodo's rescue. Only to find that he is (SOB!) <I>TOO LATE!</I><P>...anyway, that better be how they do it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Does anyone know if I can still download the FotR and TTT trailers and if so, where?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They are still on the offical website<BR>Right here <A HREF="http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_rotk_trailer.html" TARGET=_blank>LordoftheRings.net</A><BR>Scroll down to find them<P>Additionally they are also on the theatrical editions of the DVD. That is where I usually go if I want to see them now.<P>Oh and additional comment. Up a couple of posts Rose Cotton talked about how she liked Elrond's lines. I totally agree with everything she has said. Originally when I watched FOTR I really didn't like Elrond, but since I have grown to really enjoy him, and right now it seems they are giving him much better lines. I also really enjoyed the lines that he had in the Extended Edition while they are still in Rivendell, and Aragorn is at the grave of his mother. Even though the scene seems totally out of place, Elrond's lines it that scene are awfully beautiful, and touching.

I saw the RotK trailer and all I could do was just sit there and cry my eyes out. The part that struck my heart the most was when Merry told Pippin, "We will see the Shire again." Pippin's face showed how much that poor little dear had been forced to grow up in only a couple of months' time. I think that is the worst part of war. It takes the innocence from people (or Hobbits) like Pippin, and that is the worst crime of all.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Then, thanks to a fortuitous head butt, Sam escapes Gollum's clutches and runs to Mr. Frodo's rescue. Only to find that he is (SOB!) TOO LATE!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was pretty certain that was the bit where Sam gets his feet firmly planted on the ground and throws himself backward onto Gollum...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm still holding out for Theoden. But, as you say, we'll find out soon enough. Anyone care to take a bet? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm...maybe not to bet...but it is NO WAY THÉODEN!!!!

With reference to the many queries about the laserbeam/flame/whatever bursting from Minas Morgul, I think this is a slightly amp-up version of something that does appear in the books.<P>To signal the start of the War, Sauron sends up a great burst of flame from Mount Doom.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And Minas Morgul answered. There was a flare of livid lightnings: forks of blue flame springing up from the tower and from the encircling hills into the sullen clouds (THE STAIRS OF CIRITH UNGOL - THE TWO TOWERS) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Granted, its not exactly as it sounds in the book, but my bet is that the blue-green light is the answering signal from Minas Morgul, after which the Witch-King marches forth.<p>[ October 03, 2003: Message edited by: kharank ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I think your stretching this Estel. "The Eye is moving," more than likely refers to the direction of it's gaze.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> Possibly. But if the two scenes happened close to the same time, then it might not be to much of a stretch to suppose that he was still talking about Sauron...he could be talking about the Witch-King, but I think that's kinda unlikely...

Oh, I agree with that. He is talking about Sauron, but just his gaze.<P>H.C.

OK, you've got me back on to <I>that</I> speech. I ask only one question. Why would Aragorn be saying that this is not the day when friends will be forsaken and bonds of fellowship broken? He is fighting for his Kingdom and, ultimately, the fate of Middle Earth, not for any distinct group of "friends" with whom he has "bonds of fellowship". The only conceivable explanation, to my mind, is that he is talking about fighting to buy Frodo time. But that's hardly a suitable basis for a morale boosting speech for his troops.<P>On the voice alone, I cannot tell. It could be either. And, of course the editing of the trailer does suggest that it is Aragorn. But it is the <I>subject matter</I> of the speech that leads me to think that it is Theoden. But then again, there are many here who, I am sure, have seen both of the previous films many more times than I, who think it is Aragorn ...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'd like to take you up on your bet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm, it's the last point above that concerns me most. I shall have to listen again to suitable excerpts from the two previous films and get back to you, Thenamir (and HC) ... <P>The green light is shooting up from Minas Morgul, which clearly has a "green theme" in this film. We see it both from a distance (from Minas Tirith by the looks of the tower in the foreground) and as a backdrop to a Nazgul swooping down from Minas Morgul. I think that kharank hit the nail on the head with the quote about Minas Morgul answering the signal from Barad-Dur.<P>As for "He is here" by Legolas, this does seem to be part of the same scene as the earlier excerpt, when he is saying "The Eye of the Enemy is moving". Which does suggest that it is about Sauron. It looks to be either in Edoras or Minas Tirith, more likely Edoras from the look of the mountains in the background. It is certainly not the Black Gate, so it is not evidence of Sauron making an appearance there. Frankly, I am at a loss even to speculate what Legolas might mean by this ... <P>... OK, I'm not one to pass up the opportunity of speculating as far as this trailer is concerned. Perhaps he says this at the same time as Pippin is looking into the Palantir, and it's a reaction to Sauron's "presence" in the Palantir. Pure speculation, of course. <P>While on the subject of Sauron appearing, there is a shot towards the end (in the sequence where a number of shots appear in quick succession) where Aragorn is wielding Anduril with a slightly desparate look in his eye. Conceivably, this could be during his fight with Sauron <I>if</I> such a fight is to take place.<P>Finally, back to my favourite subject. No, not Aragorn - er Theoden's - speech, but Shelob. I think that the scene where we see her chasing Frodo takes place earlier than his and Sam's final confrontation with her. There is a shot fairly early on in the trailer where we see Frodo, covered in webs, walking out of the caves towards Cirith Ungol. This I should imagine, is just before Shelob emerges just behind him, between him and Sam. The shot of Shelob chasing Frodo looks to take place <I>in </I> the caves, ie before Frodo emerges from them and walks towards Cirith Ungol. It looks like there will be an initial confrontation, a chase, an escape (presumably involving the Phial of Galadriel), and then a final confrontation, when we all know what happens. Which is <I>similar</I> to the book.<P>I am still wondering, though, why Shelob is chasing Frodo when he is holding up Galadriel's light ...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>but just his gaze.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Possible. But they should already have known that Sauron is looking at them; they whole reason they staged the battle was to get him to look at them & not Frodo.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I am still wondering, though, why Shelob is chasing Frodo when he is holding up Galadriel's light ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Perhaps it's because the light isn't shining directly at Shelob? He's kind've half running with it, & I'd guess it'd have more effect if he turned & faced. Just a wild guess, though...

My brother got the trailer on our comp. so I can watch it when ever I want. I've watch it oh...about 4 times by now lol! But my favorite thing is the music in the background. Especailly at the end. I also love the Wraiths on Wings diving onto Gondor. Also I'm going to be screaming a lot watching the Shelob part, *shiver* I also like the giant view of all those soliders on that hill! Wonderful! Also when Gandalf makes his staff glow! In short I love the whole thing!!!!!