Yes.

Formendacil has stated the book case, which is a powerful one.

But let's face it, we are voting for contestants in a tropical island based reality show here. We should be judging them on their deeds on the island, how suited they are to their environment and how entertaining they are to us the viewers, not their past deeds (glorious, indifferent or otherwise).

Faramir makes dull viewing. Plain and simple. And he's not as pure as you would wish him to be. He has now hired two lawyers in a blatant attempt to influence the voting. A clear breach of the rules of the game. He is most undeserving of the prize. That would send out all the wrong kinds of messages.

Assuming that Faramir goes (and it really is about time that he did), anyone else who shares my interest in keeping this show exciting should be looking to keep the tribes fairly evenly matched. Then it will come down to a straight fight between them in the final days. So that means voting off another "Man" tomorrow, and then a Hobbit the following day.

Oh, and if your going to vote for an Orc, at least have the good sense to vote for the dishonourable one. :rolleyes: As Orcs go, Ugluk is a diamond geezer. :D

Well I'll go for
++Ugluk
for now, but I thought the deal was that we'd do Grishnakh today? I'd prefer to lose him first, I must say *whispers* you know, halitosis and armpit issues.

++Faramir

Plus he stalks Eowyn.

Votes-

Faramir- 7
Ugluk- 3
Eowyn- 2
Boromir- 1

Your honor, if I may...thank you.

Faramir was wise beyond your comprehension, evidently.

When he first met Frodo, he took him captive because he didn't have time to decide then and there. They talked about it some after the battle before going to his cave. During that short talk, he realized that Frodo's quest was something more than a hobbit's walking party and this was serious. He made a promise to Frodo somehwere in that time period (I can't remember if it was during the questioning or their walk) that he would not pick up the thing even if lay by the road side.
Later, when Sam let it slip that it was the Ring, Faramir realized just how powerful this thing that Frodo bore was. He'd heard the old tales and understood. What is more, Sam had pretty much told him what happened to Boromir. Knowing Boromir, Faramir knew immediately what he had fallen into with all the envy and lust for the thing. He had no desire to see it because he knew it wouldn't do any good for him, and it would only cause a lot of harm.

And he did not take the Hobbits back to Gondor because if he did, his father would get his nasty hands on the Ring and then everybody would fall. He knew his father, and he knew his pride. If he had taken the hobbits back to Minas Tirith, Middle-Earth would have been doomed. You know that as a fact! Faramir had no other choice than to do what he did! It was a difficult decision to make, and he made the best that he possibly could.

Oh, look it up! That's worse than your first accusation against him! He DID offer to go to Rivendel...he wanted to! But Boromir said he wanted to, and we all know which of the sons Denethor liked better! Faramir offered himself...he understood the dreams best, he should have gone! And then the Fellowship might not have split!

Also, he was quite unable to go onto the Field of Pelennor or to the Black Gate considering that he was on death's doorstep. He got wounded at the very beginning of battle, if you'll recall.

How many warriors of that time do you know that mentioned their brothers and/or sisters on journeys like that? Sam only mentioned one of his sisters, and he had several. Aragorn didn't talk about his people very much. He mentioned his Father because his Father just happened to be the head person in Minas Tirith at the time. I'll warrant you that if his father was just some random Captain of the Guard, then he wouldn't have been mentioned too many times.

Eowyn accepts him because she realizes that she was loving a shadow and a dream. She didn't really love Aragorn...she loved the Kingship and the Glory. Faramir was an awesome man...strong, smart, calm, patient, gentle, though also a warrior. How could any woman not fall in love with him?

Aragorn chose him as his Steward because that was his rightful place, having been the son of the former Steward. (Therefore showing that he isn't worthless.)

Clearly, his is anything but lazy, stupid, and worthless. Faramir had better stay.

I can't help but laugh at you, Saucey. Don't you know? Only the best people have two lawyers!! :D

-- Folwren

As I said, Faramir's past history counts for nought in this game. I'm judging him on his contribution to the show. And he's boring me rigid.

Since when have reality show contestants been allowed to employ lawyers to plead their case and enhance their prospects in the game? It's like allowing someone to take a panel of experts onto Who Wants To Be A Millionaire to answer the questions for them. :rolleyes:

I am yet to hear any defence to the charge that he is guilty of first degree cheating.

--Faramir

++Ugluk

Since when have reality show contestants been allowed to employ lawyers to plead their case and enhance their prospects in the game?
But Sauce, what evidence do we have that Faramir actually hired these laywers? They may have just wanted glory for themselves, or an anti-Faramir person might have hired them in order to create the illusion that Faramir was cheating?

Until this reasonable doubt has been cleared from my mind my vote will go to

++UGLUK

They have held themselves out as representing him and he has issued no denial. That's good enough for me.

All these sudden votes for Ugluk are mighty suspicious. I suspect dark, manipulative forces moving in the background. And I suspect Faramir to be at the centre of it. This man is more devious than even I had taken him for. Can you not see that he is taking you all for fools?

If Faramir doesn't go today, I'm switching off and not watching any more. :mad:

(Hehe. I occasionally look over the UK Big Brother forums when the show is on and people are always saying things like this. Yet they keep watching and wasting their money voting ... :rolleyes: :D )

How can he issue a denial when to appear here would be another example of breaking the rules? He would accused of trying to influence people!

Well, clearly it would be were such a denial issued on his behalf now, after the issue has been raised. :p

A fog has cleared from my eyes and matters have become clearer to me. It is apparent that the Faramir Supporters (no doubt under Faramir's malign influence) have thrown their lot in with the Anti-Elvish Alliance. No doubt, the condition required by the Alliance for their support is a concerted move against the Elves on the morrow.

I call on all Elf supporters wherever you may be to vote for Faramir now. If you do this thing, I pledge myself to oppose the push to wipe out the Elves that will inevitably come tomorrow.

Note the public declaration. In contrast to the sinister Faramir Posse, I am not one for sly, secretive deals. :p ;)

The Elf Conservation Trust loves Machiavellian politics...

++UGLUK

Well you can kiss goodbye to your precious Elves then ...

You don't know what your getting yourself into, throwing your lot in with the Dark Prince of Ithilien. :eek:

I had really problems with making the desicion between Faramir (boring too perfect superhero) and Uglúk(an idiot orc), but I ended up with ++Ugluk, when I read that Saucie will join the anti-elvish camp, if Faramir is voted for the next to go... :p

Conjecture! Your Honour, we are dealing with FACTS, not with random conjecture. The fact is that Faramir DID in fact let the One Ring slip by, in direct contravention of his Lord's will, as well as being the most reckless move one could make in a war that his people were already losing terribly. It's all very well to say that in the end it was better, the fact is that at the time of occurrence, this action was reckless and disobedient.

Might I remind you that we only have Faramir's word for this- and of his brother Boromir in Rivendell. Boromir is well known for his affection for his brother, and would very likely have tried to present him in a better light. Again, I ask you to look at the FACTS. And the fact is that Faramir remained in Gondor while Boromir went to Rivendell.

I am not saying that the others are any better! Note that Sam and Aragorn have already been removed. And furthermore, although Boromir does not mention Faramir- despite being as reputedly close to him as Sam to his Gaffer- he makes no mention of him, perhaps having nothing good to say, although he mentions his much-maligned father several times.

Not being a woman, I cannot answer that. However, history shows many records of men seducing or forcing women into their arms. As well as many records of women chosing to marry with no love on their part.

Would I be too brash, perhaps, to liken Faramir to Ar-Pharazon? I think not.

Rightful place? The "right" to the title of steward was one granted by the King, and could be revoked by the King. If Aragorn had felt any political pressure from the son of the old ruling house, he would have revoked their title at any moment. Remember at the his coronation, Faramir handed over his staff- symbolic of his title- because he knew that the new king could take it any time he wished.

[quote=FolwrenClearly, he is anything but lazy, stupid, and worthless. Faramir had better stay.[/quote]

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury! You have seen the evidence from both sides of the floor, and it is unlikely that you will find this courtroom of one mind. But I should like to remind you of the consequences of keeping Faramir in this game!

This is the Middle-Earth Forum, and we are to abide by its rules. The Prime Directive of these rules is "humour". We are lawfully bound to amuse and entertain- and even to be random.

By keeping Faramir in this game, you are deliberately aiding and abetting this rule-breaking felon in his attempt to bring this game to a competition between men only. You will be upsetting the balance of the tribes no matter which way you choose otherwise. Unless you vote off another Man, the unpredictability and randomness, indeed the very humour, of this game will be broken.

The bloc defending Faramir right now is as unjust and selfish as the bloc that defended Celeborn. It is a self-righteous bloc determined to see their man win at all costs, regardless of whether the humour of this game suffers.

I beseech you all, therefore, to remove this unsightly blight on our game, and all vote for the removal of Faramir.

Point of order ...
 

See how he moves in malicious ways? The Sinister Steward has cast a web of deceit over your eyes. I actually pledged myself to support the Elves if Faramir goes today. :rolleyes:

(You know, with all this malign activity of his, I'm actually beginning to like Faramir. :eek: Perhaps I should appoint him an honorary Orc. ;) )

I can swear to everyone right now this instant to help relieve fears - those who have attacked elves in the past will no longer do so. If an elf is taken off this island henceforth, it will not be due to those who took off Cirdan, Thranduil, or Celeborn. Mark my words.

-- Folwren

(The Defending Attorney will answer in a little while...)

++Ugluk.

And you're all nutters for wanting to kill Faramir, by the way. ;)

Disobedient to what? To a man who was half mad with the want of power! Faramir knew that his father was insane in his lust! Besides that, in law there is no such thing as 'at the time of occurance'. All that matters is the final outcome.
Besides that, if you want to press your case if disobedience, the take into mind that during War, different choices have to be made. A law has to have an exception, right? In order to be an actual law? That was an acception. This was a special case. Faramir didn't have time to run back home and ask the steward if he could let thse Hobbits go. He knew there wasn't any time to take them to Denethor, either. Time was running short. It was a War. It happens like that sometimes.

You disgust me.

'It was the Lord of the City that gave the errand to him.' -Faramir

'Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed for myself.' -Denethor

Denethor, who did not look kindly upon Faramir, nor wish to make him look good, said that it was he who had sent Boromir off on the errand. Faramir would have gone. He offered himself to go, but his father refused. These are facts.

Sam and Aragorn are gone due not to these things, but for certain persons likes or dislikes.
There was no occasion to mention Faramir, that is why. Simple reasoning. You keep stabbing me for not using Facts, but this is certainly something that is completely assumed. Anyone can see right through this argument.

Not in the history of the Shieldmaiden. I will remind you, Eowyn was no weakling and not one likely to be seduced or forced to do anything she didn't want to do in respect of that.
I know from personal experience (not my own experience...) that women who are about to marry someone they don't love don't act like Eowyn did. :p

Ha! Deliberately aiding!

I'll remind you that anything I join in, it often because a debate. Take the Werewolf Game I played, Favorite Hobbits, and now this. Humour? I enjoy debating...it amuses me.

You're not supposed to insult the opposing attorney! That goes totally against the laws of this court room.

I seriously don't mind another man being taken out, but why Faramir? Get Hama....he's more deserving of your dislikes.

The Jury will decide. Neither of us have the final say.

Faramir should stay, and by the looks of things, the people are agreeing with me.

-- Folwren

In that case...
--Eowyn
++Faramir

Eowyn will go another day.

++Ugluk

He's hideously ugly, for one thing, and for another - he's an orc! What excuse could you possibly have to want to keep an orc around?

(Plus, I want to be sure Faramir's safe. :D)

-- Folwren

Oi I've gotten so busy lately. I won't be here Friday either, I'll be gone for most of the day, and Saturday into the afternoon. So, here's the votes, hope you don't mind starting late...

Ugluk just edges Faramir out 9-8...

Say bye-bye to another orc. People got fed up with him trying to control and run everything acting like he was the bigboss and he commanded. Faramir will go down, mark my words.


Hobbits
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins
Merry
Pippin

Men and Rohan Lady
Boromir
Eomer
Eowyn
Faramir
Hama

Wizards
Alatar
Pallando

Dwarves
Gimli
Gloin

Elves
Galadriel
Glorfindel

Others
Quickbeam
Treebeard

Badguys
Grishnakh

I'm all for thinning out the man tribe but I think that we might want to go for Eomer.

Bah! I just do not understand how you people could vote off such a proud, noble, fine figure of an Orc. Given the choice between two evils, you went for (by retaining) the greater! I shall be revenged!!!

(Is it just me, or does this game bring out the worst in people? ;) )

In view of his disreputable past and dishonourable behaviour on the island, I move that Faramir be transferred to the badguys tribe.

But until he is ...

++ FARAMIR

Bah!

I think we should get rid of ++eamor.

vote!
 

Saucepan Man , are you sure you want to vote Faramir? I think that Boromir's past is much more disreputable, what with trying to steal the Ring from Frodo.

I vote
++Boromir

++Boromir must go, him and faramir have an alliance that must be broken, plus Boromir got shot with hundreds of orc arrows that creep

I'll have to agree with mormegil. I do not deny that the men need thinning out, but I will not give in and let them take Faramir away without some sort of fight.

Understand, Eomer is a great man, too, but Faramir, in my opinion, is more worthy of staying. Eomer, at least, was not wronged in the movie, whereas Faramir had his character stollen from him.

++Eomer :(

Please - please, everyone - give Faramir a chance!

-- Folwren

While I think that Boromir's death was very brave and valiant, there is no room on the insland for dead people. So I say

++Boromir

has to go.

Um, let me think ...

Duh!

Tsk! These Faramir Groupies have no shame. Now they are prepared to fall upon a noble and honourable King of Rohan in order to achieve their twisted ends. They must be resisted! Supporters of Rohan! Your Eored needs you. Give the horseboy a break and vote Faramir.

A chance? A chance? How many chances does the Gondorian Goon get?

++Boromir

Worse than his brother at least. Boromir can barely do any more island-work; his mind is always on that ring. And since his father's been given the boot he never seems to be motivated to do anything, not even to boil the water.

Ha! Eomer must be a pretty big wimp if he needs a break already!! For all that I'm aware of, this is the first time he's been voted for, and you're already whining for him to be givin' it easy!

:p

-- Folwren

++Gloin


Because his name is an anagram for Nilog!

Why would anyone want to vote for someone who knows how to stay afloat down waterfalls? :eek:

I say we vote for ++GRISHNAKH. Just this one last bad guy out, and it's free-for-all.

What??

Don't you touch Eomer. Faramir may be me, but Eomer is much, much better than me...he's Gawain, he's young Beowulf, he's a berserker! Nobody is going to throw him out on my watch. "Ride to ruin and the world's ending!" Besides, with Celeborn gone Galadriel has shown her true feelings towards him, and the duels between him and Gimli are hilarious to watch...

I will throw myself behind the Boromir campaign. Face it, chaps, Boromir is basically a big, bluff, sporty lout. The only thing that makes him interesting is his exposure to the Ring, causing lots of cool moral ambiguity, and his above average Orc-hacking skills; but the Ringbearers are all gone and there's only one Orc left on the island. Now he'll just stand around kicking a football or repeating hackneyed repuplican cant copied from his father. No, better to let him go home.

++BOROMIR

Folwren says "Eomer was not wronged in the movie; Faramir had his character stolen from him."

Faramir was a bit odd in one scene, and his motives were explained in the Extended Edition. Eomer was practically cut from the films, and lost all his best lines and moments in the awful rejigging of the Pelennor Fields...

Eomer is absolutely my favourite boy and I will ally myself with you once again, Anguirel, to defend him.
I would personally have prefered to lose Faramir or Hama (who while a decent sort, I don't think has really made his mark on the island). Boromir has a certain cute, misguided, hero-with-a-fatal-flaw charm.

But what the hell, to save lovely Eomer I will sacrifice anyone (oh, except the girls, of course).

++BOROMIR

Sorry Sauce but Faramir has always been a favourite and nothing you or Formendacil say is going to change that. Also, your promise to become pro-Elf is redundant as Folwren has already said that none of the people who voted off the Elves in previous rounds will do so again.

++BOROMIR

He needs to be kicked off.

The key word here is survivor, nothing complicated about that...
OR IS THERE? :mad: :confused:

That's as maybe, but this is a LotR Reality Show in the Mirth forum, not a "Who's your favourite ..." thread in N&N. That concept appears to have been lost on one or two here.

Interesting how Faramir appears to have become the stumbling block in my efforts to remove the dull but worthy Survivors from the Island. Sam, Aragorn and Frodo were push-overs, yet the Duplicitous Defender of Osgiliath seems to have well and truly entrenched himself.

Oh well. No matter. There are worse choices than Boromir. I would be happy to see him go to save Eomer.

And you believe them ...!!?? :rolleyes:

Edit: Please ignore the Troll.

++Boromir for falling. And not dying when he gets shot. And introducing, Spaghetti Monster forbid, magic to LotR... staying afloat down waterfalls? Bah! Reeks of dark magic. And also for the continuous, unrelenting horn jokes.