Who created the weapon which would eventually end the life of Morgoth?

(Hint: Said weapon is wielded by Gorthol)

Originally Eol, and later the smiths of Nargothrond - I don't think there are any known by name. Might have been Turin himself, though I don't know how he would have learnt the art.

hS

Since this is 'bad guy trivia', Eol is the one I had in mind.

So, my turn?

Treating the cursed sword itself as a "bad guy":

The answer I gave above is wrong. Why?

hS

Now that's a difficult one. It is known that Gurthang is the sword to kill Morgoth (according to prophecy of Mandos), and it is known that Eol is the original owner, and it's known that Turin is its wielder and that he'd do the deed. Based on these facts, I see no reason why you would think the answer you gave is wrong....

All of those things are true - but one of them is also false. :)

hS

Unless you mean that Turin won't be the one who kill Morgoth, everything I've said is true.

Maybe it has something to do with the disloyalty of sword itself?

No, I won't quibble that point, and I agree that everything you said is true. But one of your points is also wrong. :):)

hS

Mm... no, I don't think so (and if so, only at an extreme tangent, as in 'said disloyalty led to the circumstances that make me wrong').

hS

Do you mean to say that Eol is not the original maker? :o

Eol is the original maker of Anglachel, certainly, which was reforged in Nargothrond into Gurthang. So in a sense, the smiths of Nargothrond are the makers of Gurthang.

But I said that in my answer. So why was I wrong?

hS

I don't know. You said that each of the three main points are true, yet that the statement consisting of those three points is false. And considering you said all three points are true, your answer can't be false.

Unless there is some obscure variable I'm missing.....

Wait.....since Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang, and Gurthang is the weapon that will slay Morgoth, that means that Eol didn't make the weapon which will kill Morgoth. Because since Anglachel was reforged, Anglachel and Gurthang are now different swords.

(That was a bit wordy, but you get the point...)

It's worse than that - while each of your three points is true, one of the three is also false. :eek:

A correct - though not full - answer to your original trivia question might help, and that answer is: No-one.

hS

This is true! You're three-quarters of the way there - because I did give 'the smiths of Nargothrond' as an answer. So why was that still wrong...?

hS

You mean that Eol didn't make the sword at all?

This is quickly becoming a mystery festa.... :eek:

Eol made Anglachel, and Anglachel was reforged into Gurthang.

And then...?

hS

From Tolkien Gateway:

Oh, you meant that?

Well, technically it is still true. :p

After all, if Turin could come back to finish the job, then so could Gurthang.

It sounds like you might have thought up the right answer; all you need to do is say it. :) Why does Gurthang need to come back?

hS

Because:

It's specifically noted that Turin will use Gurthang, rather than some random sword, to finish the job.

That's why.

Yes, Gurthang will be used to kill Morgoth; but why does it need to come back? Or, what does it need to come back from, that might explain why I'm still insisting my answer was wrong?

hS

All right. It was broken after it took Turin's life. Is that what you were going for?

Either way, the answer remains true. Turin will slay Morgoth with Gurthang, which was made by Eol. And that is the way of it.

Correct. Gurthang is currently in (at least) two pieces; it will need reforging before it can be used to kill anyone (barring Narsil-esque finger shenanigans). So while Anglachel was made by Eol, and reforged (for some reason - it wasn't broken!) by the Nargothrondrim - Gurthang II, the sword that will kill Morgoth, has yet to be forged from the pieces of the original.

Quibbly, I know, but I don't think it unreasonable to call Narsil and Anduril different swords, the latter being 'created' in Rivendell.

(My guess is that Aule will probably attend to the reforging of Gurthang personally; perhaps he can do something about that curse of Eol's while he's at it. Though they might always give Feanor the job...)

hS

I hope so, that way my statement that it was made by a bad guy will remain true.

I think I will take a short nap before continuing this.

Which two characters share a name?

Gothmog? The Balrog and the Third Age battle commander?

Yup.

A name shared by two villains. To follow that up, what name is shared by two villainous objects?

Grond?

Le voila. Proceed.

How about- a name shared by a villainous object and a non-villainous location?

Ok, silly answer time... SCARY! :p

Oh, you mean the famous Scary Bad Thing and the equally renowned Scary but Okay Place?

Of course! The village in the Shire that's just as renowned as that scary thing the bad guys used.


There's Orthanc-stone and Orthanc-rock, but I wouldn't call the place entirely innocent. And they are not identical anyways.

Well, perhaps not quite as renowned, but Morgulknifesville does boast one of the prettiest little picnic-grounds in the East Farthing!;)

I wouldn't call it even slightly innocent, after Saruman took up residence. So no, not those two.

Well that's a shame, cause all of my ideas seem to lead back to the various names of Saruman's abode (mostly iron- and fang- related stuff). Hint please?

Hmmn. Hints... let's see...

1. [---] is the actual name of the place, but only one of many given the object.
2. Both place and object are very important to the history of Arda, but the object is much better known in the real world.

The One Ring, and the Ring of Doom in Valinor?

Edit: the former was even called the "Ring of Doom" by the minstrel at the Field of Cormallen)