Ulfang and his Ul-sons? I'm not sure even they are unambiguously evil though. The Nirnaeth is sort of said to be their fault, though, so perhaps they deserve the brand.

Um... I'll accept that; they were willing Morgoth-followers. I was actually thinking of Azog and Bolg. :D Over to you.

hS

(Also, you're up in the Riddle thread)

A simple one, I think, in rather reverse-theme fashion.

Which two characters are speculated to be related, but are actually not so?

Oh, I know! It's Morgoth and the random baby that he adopted, right?

Such a nice, upstanding fellow...going around adopting babies...

And personally, I speculate that Feanor and Gothmog are related...

I think you're still stuck on the evil parent/child question. :p

You might do so, but I don't think there is such documented speculation in the actual text. :smokin:

The only speculation inside the books is the Primula/Drogo deal, but that's not what it is about. Unless you count appendices?

Primula and Drogo were related - they shared a great-grandparent. Didn't know it was in the text of the book though (I should've checked rather than tracing family trees!).

The question makes me think of the "fairy wife" Took legend, but I don't think it's specific enough. Tolkien at one point considered the possibility of Eol being part-Noldor, which would make him distantly related to Aredhel, but it's not an in-universe speculation.

It's not Finrod and Gildor Inglorion ("Son of Inglor" = Finrod), is it?

hS

That's because it wasn't. The speculation was about the drowning.

The speculation comes from the main texts. You don't need to dig into appendices or HOME or such. For "Inglorion", it would still be the audiience speculating about the relationship to Finrod. This speculation is in the text - and as an audience, we know it to be entirely wrong. And Urwen, the speculation is about two characters being related, not about anything they did.

I suspect it comes from LOTR, so time to start digging.

Okay, so I found this:


I might be grasping at straws, though, but I won't stop trying.

Is it Bilbo and the rabbits Gollum catches? The trolls and eagles certainly think he is one... :D

I feel like the 'speculation' is likely quite insulting, and possibly relating to an animal. Sort of like Treebeard saying that he thought Merry and Pip were little Orcs, but again he doesn't get specific.

hS

But we actually trust Gandalf's assessment that Gollum's people were likely related to hobbits. So no.

These are all very good thoughts that I haven't thought of. :D No, the instance I have in mind is actually complimentary, and is about two specific characters.

I thought about Finduilas' statement about Turin and Beren being kinsmen, but that one is also true...

Yes, it is true. Therefore, it is wrong. :D

There was that one instance where...


Wait a minute, I think I may know the answer... :D

Except there is no way for that to be possible, not even as a mere speculation

You know, it is really helpful when you post so clearly. Then I can tell you for sure whether you're on the right track, and you will know for sure whether you're right or wrong.

Besides, did I not tell you that the we the audience KNOW this speculation is incorrect? You are looking for impossible suggestions!

Well, there is that instance where Theoden and Fingolfin were compared to Orome...

But no one in the books went 'Oh, they remind me of Orome, they must be related to him!' or anything similar

Right. You are looking for an instance that's not merely a comparison, but a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation. However, the made-up example here is exactly the kind of thing you need.


To help you out, it is NOT a Sil/other First Age event.

So you're saying that someone said/thought 'you remind me of X, are you related' to someone else?

Different grammar, similar concept. X reminded someone of Y, and prompted a semi-serious suggestion of familial relation.

Apart from Turin/Beren comparison, I can't recall any other such instance without re-reading the books...

Okay. How about I give a chance for others to give it a try, and if there is no luck in a couple days, I will point you in a more specific direction.

Okay, but I am allowed to research in the interim, right?

Absolutely! Guess away.

Also, just a reminder that you're up in riddle thread.

So you said. Be patient please, there will be one within a few days, and if not I will pass the turn over.

One more clarification: is it the exact quote which says 'X reminds me of Y', verbatim?

Verbatim? No. Not those exact words. But their meaning, yes.

But it is a quote? Not thoughts or monologue?

What difference does it make? I told you, I will have plenty of hints coming if in a day or two there is no success from you or someone else, but let's not do 20 Questions please.

You said 'in a couple of days'. That could mean five or six days too, for all I know...

No, I mean a couple days, as in 1-2. In any case, it definitely doesn't mean "a couple hours". Please have some patience while looking for this textual reference. Remember that it doesn't all have to be book digging, if you fall upon the right association you could very well bring it up from memory.

My memory is a terrible thing to behold...

Though I have possible candidates for X, like Pippin or Faramir...

By X do you mean one of the two characters who are suggested to be related? I can answer that fairly, I think. Neither Pippin nor Faramir is the subject of that speculation.

*quietly closes her ROTK window*

Well, it's been a day, so...do you wanna give hints now or wait one more day?