Agreed. I also think that it depends on the 'original' works - were they meant to be self-contained with every loose thread wrapped up, or were they just part of another bigger story that the author was trying to tell but initially couldn't sell? Like a movie sequel, does the 'continuation' follow logically from the initial story, or does my brain need to go fuzzy, do a few flips and maybe just disconnect for a while while a new 'story' is set up. For example, if in the original the Dark Lord is defeated and everything is bliss, and the next story starts out with the Dark Lord's older brother (never mentioned nor alluded to previously) shows up so that our protagonists can have something to do, yet again, then there's a problem.

Melkor, until banished into the Void, was always around to start some trouble, and Sauron just didn't show up in the Third Age...

Plus, how much care is taken when writing the sequels? Are you contracted to slap something together every year or two, or are you passionately creating something that will be finished when *you* think it is (or maybe it's never finished, but gets pried from your cold dead hands)?


I wish Tolkien would have fleshed out more stories in the Sil. They would not have affected LOTR, and as they all were preconceived, I don't think that they would become stale. Plus Tolkien's writing style is *much* better than average. I'm confident that JRRT would have put the whip down before the horse was dead.


Robert Jordan seems to be doing this with WoT. I started reading the books at the suggestion of a coworker to whom I had suggested LOTR (I lost on that exchange!). Jordan's first few books were okay - not at the level of LOTR, but what is? - but then they seemed to become more redundant, confusing and a chore to read. Like when watching late night TV, I continued 'viewing' just in case something interesting would happen, but was continually disappointed.

I quit and will not read any more of his books - how else can we get a message to him and his publisher?

Another issue is having someone 'take over' after the author has gone on to his reward. Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson have done this with Frank Herbert's Dune works. If Brian did not have access to the Dune/Herbert legacy, no one would read the garbage that he spews. I even made excuses for the first prequel that he wrote, knowing that it may have been hard to sync up to the original works. The pre-prequels, where Brian had a free hand, were even worse. To add another nail, there were some gross inconsistencies that made it seem that he hadn't bothered to read his father's works. Imagine that in a LOTR sequel Gimli is suddenly an Elf.

I wish that these new works were never written, as they begin to taint the original for those who know no better.

At least Christopher Tolkien had the sense to publish and not write.

regarding the Wheel of Time series - I've got the whole series of them when I joined a book club a couple of months back. Can I ask a query to those who have read them?

Should I start with No 1 the Eye of the World, or is it best to start with the 'prequel', New Spring?

Didn't read New Spring, as I gave up at either "Crossroads of Twilight" or "Winter's Heart" - so little happened in the last book I read and the later books are so unremarkable that I have trouble telling them apart! So not sure what advice to give regarding where to start (except not too ;) ).

Give them a go, see what you think and let me know - I'd like to hear your opinion as you're already are a Tolkien fan prior to reading WoT.

Start with number one and read in the order they are published in. As I understand it New Spring actually reveals alot that will spoil some things if you haven't read the books that came before it in publishing order.

Good luck on the series! I read into Book 6 and then dropped it because of the lack of plot advancment. Maybe when the final book comes out I'll take a look again, but the series is now something like 15+ years and going with no end in sight. That is too long to drag readers along with no closure. At least in long series like Pern or Redwall you get closure on certain characters and story arcs.

My Piece on Robert Jordan
 

Robert Jordan is thief and a hack. He rips off Tolkien, Herbert, and history.
Tolkien rip offs:

1. RJ has "Dark Lord" who never manifests himself physically, but works through his minions and lives in wasteland surrounded by mountains.

2. The main characters are from a backwater area unaware of the turmoil that is comming to the world and are led away by magic-user and borderguard.

3. The scene in the Eye of the World where rand encounters the Myrdraal on the road is much like the Black Rider scene in FotR.

Herbert Rip Offs:

1.The main character has lots of powers and he is the savior of mankind.

2. His people are a desert people

3. There is a group of woman sorcerers working to control the world and the main character

History Rip offs:

1. The Seanchan army is called the Ever Victorious Army, the exact name of a mercenary group in China during the Taiping Rebellion

2. There is a legendary High King, named Artur Hawking Paendrag. Doesn't that sound like Arthur Pendragon?

3. There is a Green Man, much like in ancient Celtic society

Literary stuff:
He is boring. His characters don't interact like real people. His female characters are all rightious ******* and he is afraid to kill main characters off. he takes the names of existing monsters and changes them. Trollocs, Ogier, etc.

Awww, Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time is horrible. I read the first one and couldn't continue any longer. Book made of clichées. And done that in a terrible way.

oh dear. lucky the wheel of time books only cost me about £5 for the complete set as an introductory offer the world books fantasy book club. oh well, I'll give eye of the world a go sometime.

thanks for the replies

Wheel of Time Re:
 

Personally, I didn't find them as bad as all that. The first few were interesting enough, Books 5 and 6 were okay and the endings were quite good, but Books 7-10 nothing new really happened. They just sort of dragged on, being largely repetitive of each other just with new names and places. If he had condensed those four into one book it would have been a whole lot more interesting - he just needs to say it, not make a single day drag on for 600 pages. And Makar is right, he is definitely afraid to kill off main characters. But I did enjoy the first few, for what it's worth.

Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series is pretty good, though it sometimes seems that the main character is rather lacking in flaws. In the first couple books there were a few things that seemed to be rip-offs of other books, but it got much better - he seemed to come up with more original ideas as he went.

Recently I started reading some books by Tamora Pierce and am finding them pretty interesting, in particular her newest two, Trickster's Choice and Trickster's Queen (Yes, I'm reading the series out of order... something I very rarely do). She certainly doesn't beat her world and characters to death; the series are quite short but interesting nevertheless.

If you haven't read them already, you should read her Alanna series, they're quite good.

I actually have the first book of The Wheel of Time but I decided not to begin reading them untill Robert Jordan has finished the series. (I might be waiting forever :D )

I really enjoyed the Tamora Pierce books, however, lately I haven't enjoyed them as much as I used to. I'm afraid I've grow out of them since the plotline etc. is a little simplistic and predictable. But I will always remember them fondly.

I'm starting to feel the same way about Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series. I think it peaked around book 4 and then just went downhill. It starts getting verrrrrrry repetitive, and not only in the plot. Even the writing style starts to get old after a while; he uses the exact same phrases and things over and over.

Oh well... all the more power to Mr. Goodkind, seeing as he has a great many books published and I can't even seem to think of a plot for these characters who are bouncing around in my head...

Robert Jordan
 

Before I start I must say that Tolkien was a mastermind, and the first to ever develop this level of fantasy-based books. Other authors will come and go, but none can compare to what he achieved.

Quoting from english writer Terry Pratchett, "Most modern fantasy just rearranges the furniture in Tolkien's attic."
So true.

But in concern to Robert Jordan, I thought the first book and even the next couple were very exciting- in places. They had their moments, but in other parts were quite dull.

From there on it did get worse, and it has become too complicated. Not only is he afraid to kill off any main characters, he is afraid to put the stories to rest. Even though he has been running out of ideas for about the last four books, he is still determined to make as many as he possibly can. I just want the issues to be resolved that have been hanging around like dead flies for the last four thousand pages!

Let it go, Rob, let it go. ;)

PS. Lathriel, you WILL be waiting forever, i say read the books now, because he'll probably have passed away before he can ever finnish them and will dissappoint us all... :rolleyes:

I'm beginning to think the same way Dragon Reborn. However, I'm just way too busy right now to read such a large book. Right now I'm reading the Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain. Although my english teacher says there is a lot more to the book then meets the eye all I've seen so far is just an adventure book.

As for Terry Pratchett, my friend talks about his books so often that I'm getting tired of them. They are practically the only books she's reading right now. Can you believe it, she reads the book, finishes it and then begins to read it all over again. She does this for about three to four times with all of them!!!! :eek:

I bought Pratchett's "The Color of Magic" because I had heard great things about the series, and from what I had read about it, it seemed really interesting. I started reading it but the first few pages really failed to entertain me -- plus, I had bought a bunch of Tolkien books at the same time and decided to read those instead. That's okay, though... I'll read it eventually.

The Colour of Magic isn't his best anyway...I liked it least of all of them (and yes I've read all of them...I think...the vast majority anyway). Interms of Most entertaining I suggest:
The Truth
The Fifth Elephant
Guards! Guards!
and Moving Pictures

Also the book Good Omens (written by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett) is probably the funniest book ever...it's about what happens when the appocalypse has come but they've lost the antichrist.

That sounds interesting... I am a big fan of Neil Gaiman's Sandman so I'll have to check that one out. Yay!

I started to read this book called The Green Rider and while it's not absolutely fabulous, it's not all that bad. There's a lost race of people called Eltish, they seem a lot like elves, but every time they're mentioned I think of Entish. And the main character reminds me of Alanna and Eowyn.

I recently read a cat-centric book called "Tailchaser's Song" by Tad Williams. In general I thought the plot was original and the characters believable. There were a few elements in it that I found similar to LotR - a couple of circumstances and such, but the plots were quite different so it didn't really bother me. I wouldn't call it fantastic but I'd certainly recommend it as an enjoyable read (if you like cats, that is).

And a particular source of enjoyment for me... one of the cats was named Firefoot! :D

Here's some more:
1.Firebringer Trilogy
2.Alex Rider Adventures(modern)
3.The Seventh Tower (OK :o )
4.Inheritance Trilogy
5.Spy High(modern)
6.Dragon Chronicles(OK)
I recently started reading Star Wars too. Not the movies turned book, but some of the stuff that happened after the movies. I'ts actually pretty good.

Ah yes, SW books are very good...usually.
Also I started to read Good Omen due to Enca (I'm pretty sure it was Enca who I first heard it from...) Anywho, so far it is a most excellent book.

Probably, since I wrote about how awesome a book it is on my LJ. Glad you're enjoying it. :)

Not quite fantasy
 

I know these books are not quite fantasy but still VERY enjoyable. The Ender Saga written by Orson Scott Card an incredible fantasy/sci-fi writer all his stuff will blow your mind.

A few months ago I read Eragon and Eldest by Christopher Palioni and am quite pleased with it. I can't wait 'til the final book.
He wrote Eragon when he was fifteen and obviously was inspired by Tolkien since many names of people and places are or sound like Tolkien's names. And he has followed Tolkien's view of how certain creatures/ beings ought to be. Some people think it's a rip-off but I find it to be a homage to Tolkien.

The story is defintely a person of lowly status who unexpectedly finds themself caught up in a quest that encompasses this world. I like the secondary storylines, and is easy to follow. The story has some great twists in it, too. I highly recommend it and give ****.

Fantasy...Do the old Greek Myths count? Because I love the Iliad, and I like how it captures vengence, honor, and patriotisim.

ive recently read a lot of greek mythology, but mainly just short stories. i read the entire Odyssey, and also ive read the Icewind Dale trilogy by RA Salvatore. alough i have only read three books, there are about 30 books in this series. I recomend them to any Tolkien reader, as one will find many similarities since Salvatore read Tolkien's literature. Thers so many to list! Perhaps a new thread such start on them......Also, the books of Star Wars are good reading. The Rouge Squadron are a bit Tom Clancy i think. And there is so much stuff happening after the movies......its great! like the Lost Road to LotR. I read the Harry POtter books, but im not a fanatic. After reading Tolkien they seem a bit childish. Ill probably get attcked for that :rolleyes: And im not fond of manga/anime. i will probably get stabbed for that also :p
________
Vaporizer shop

As frustrated as I am with the extrememly slow pace of the books, I don't think I could stop reading the Wheel of Time series if I tried. There was something about the first few books in the series that just pulled me in, and ever since then, I've been hooked. Yes, they do obviously rip off of other wonderful books, but Jordan does it in such a detailed way that it pulls at the imagination.

I've been reading Tamora Pierce since I picked up Alana: The First Adventure at a third grade book fair. With the exception of her newest three books (which I have read) I own all the others. The rest of them are Ok, but The Song of the Lioness Quartet will always be my favorites.

I loved The Color of Magic. Terry Pratchett is another favorite. I haven't counted exactly how many of his books I've read, but it's well over half of the Diskworld novels. My favorites are Hogfather and any of the Sam Vimes books. The Color of Magic wasn't the best, but it was still better than Eric.

Some of my other favorite authors include Tad Williams, Orson Scott Card, Piers Anthony, Anne McCaffrey, Alan French, Howard Pyle, Mary Stewart, C. S. Lewis....the list goes on.

I'm quite upset that so few 'downers have read (or liked so much that they would nominate) Robin Hobb's books, because they're so brilliant.

And if someone has problems to find books that could really move him/her after reading Tolkien, I recommend Le Guin. She's also brilliant.

(I have the feeling that I've made a just identical post earlier on the thread. I hope not.)

I have read Robin Hobb's books and I really like them.
I especially liked her new book Shaman's crossing.

Another book I recommend is Enchantment by Orson Scot Card.

Me too, though I like the older ones better.

Anyone ever read any of Dragonlance books? I read the Chronicles and thought they were pretty good. It has somewhat of an LOTR theme, with a group of friends who travel throughtout the world of Krynn to fight the dragonarmies of the Queen of Darkness. I enjoyed them as an alternative to LOTR. It's sort of a mix between LOTR and the Inheritance trilogy, with dragons and such.

I started one of the Dragonlance books (I don't remember which one it was) on the recommendation of a friend, but somehow I could never really get into them. I found a better book half-way through the Dragonlance one and I still haven't finished reading it.

Perhaps it's more science fiction than fantasy, but I'm in the middle of reading 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and all I can say is that it's amazing. Wholly recommended. :)

Jules Verne. Cool. Can remember buying a copy as a youngster for a quarter (dollar), and possibly still have it. I'd add to the list "Journey to the Centre of the Earth." Another 'classic' author of note (at least to me) is H. G. Wells, and you'd do ahh...good..by reading his works such as The Time Machine, The Invisible Man and The War of the Worlds.

And need I mention Poe?

I really like Barbara Hambly's earlier works, The Darwath Trilogy & The Ladies of Mandrygn. The internal logic of magic in her universe is the best I've read.

Honestly, if I'm not reading Tolkien, my fancies tend to lean to Sci-Fi.

For example, while I enjoyed Tad Williams' Osten Ard trilogy, I found Otherland to be much better.

I've read fantasy by Orson Scott Card: Enchantment, among others. My favorite OSC, however, will always be Ender's Game.

Sometimes I fear that fantasy authors get too caught up in cashing in on Tolkien. Fantasy novels just feel like long strings of Tolkien clones, but without the depth, and the magic, that gives Middle-Earth its fascination. I have occasionally been fascinated by other fantasies, but I can't think of any off the top of my head that have the power to hold me in the same way.

EDIT: One major exception: Steven Lawhead's Pendragon Cycle is amazing (the first book is Taliesin, if anyone's interested in finding it). However I have tried a science fiction tale by the same author and have never read a worse thing in print. I also have a soft spot for Mercedes Lackey, though I am sure her novels will rot my brain.

I must have been in a really good mood a few days ago when I added Tad Williams to my list of favorite authors. I read Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, and the Otherland series, and by the end of both of them the only thing I felt was sick and frustrated. They've got some good spots, but mostly I just found them to be long. Very long. Much longer than they had to be. I read them because they were big and cheap (-ish) and I was starved for anything fluently English. I'll give Williams credit for them being ok, but I will never, ever read them again.

Ender's Game rocks my world. Ender's Game and the Shadow series. The rest of the Ender's series was amazing, but a little hard to deal with. Bean is my hero.

I read a couple of books over the summer that had me dorking out for months, they were that good. The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell, and it's sequel Children of God were absolutely........I'm speechless just thinking about them. Definitely worth looking up. Larry Niven's Ringworld series wasn't half bad either.

I have a thing for long books, probably, at least in part, because I read very fast. I enjoyed Ender's sequels very very much. I found the philosophy he goes into in them really seemed to have a strong element of truth. But you can't look at them in the same light as you read Ender's Game. It's the same character, maybe, barely, but it's not the same story. It's about something else.

The copy I have belonged to one of my parents and cost 60 cents. If only you could still get lovely books for less than a dollar! Journey to the Center of the Earth was spiffy too. As for Wells... I've seen the movie versions of all those books! (Okay, so it was "Abbot and Costello Meet the Invisible Man...) Those books are on my "To-Read" list, though, and I'm pretty sure there's a copy of the Invisible Man floating around here somewhere.

Poe is just a given. ;)

Lets see...Ursula Le Guen's Wizard of Earthsea, I have yet to finish...
What was that one...Silver on a Tree...Over Sea Under Earth...those? I can't remember the series title...something about Greenwitch...
I'm sorry to say...Dragonlance... :o . Com'n they were good as a kid...
Bit of si-fi...my uncles seventies era Star Wars books...Star Trek (just a little), and various others on his shelf...

There's this one though, fellow by the name of Tolkien. I tell you what, he's the one to beat em all...yes sir...

Even though I don't like the basic philosophy of Dan Simmons (seems to be quite 9/11 panicked "we'll have to learn to fight once again" -kind of stuff). His new ones': "Ilium" and "Olympos" are surely worth reading... It's kind of sci-fi / Greek mythology poured together. Sounds terrible, reads great! He's very crafty in knitting the web together and making a story take you with it.

Well probably someone has already mentioned those in this thread, but read this then just as an affirmative yes-vote... ;)