In reading toDay's posts, I have found myself very suspicious of Zil, due to his bringing up the Kit situation. I haven't necessarily gotten a "wolf feeling" off of him prior to this, but I haven't exactly gotten an "innocent feeling", either, and I can more easily believe that the wolves decided it was worth while to bring up the Kit situation than that an innocent just decided to make it open and public rather than trying to quietly ignore it. I have also found myself wary of Pitch, for continuing to talk about it, but there is some plausible deniability in that Zil mentioned it first.
I didn't like Boro's posts earlier toDay, but as he mentioned me as a suspect, I decided to sleep on it before reacting. He does have a point that I shouldn't just assume Brinn is innocent - but I think his reasons for suspecting Brinn are weird, and I don't like that he uses Rikae's trap "catching" Brinn as a reason to suspect her. It feels too "well, known innocent says!" for my tastes. I am very concerned by Mac's response to the Night kill. It feels to me like he was very prepared to insist that it was a frame job, not a Macwolf killing a possible Seer, almost like he knew it was coming and had a whole Night to work up the paranoia. He is definitely high on my suspect list. I am not comfortable with Lommy's posts toDay, but as I might be a bit biased due to her suspecting me, I'm going to take a minute to make sure I'm not being blinded by that before taking a closer look at her. On a more positive note, I am getting an innocent vibe from Legate after reading his posts toDay. |
Legate, I quite agree (hence my initial eyebrow at Zil), but we'd already arrived at most of the points you make at the end of the discussion, so isn't it a bit convenient to make yourself look good by this holier-than-thou sermon?
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Now that the Ranger discussion has been brought out into the public, I have to say that this post makes me feel better about Shasta:
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I still find Brinn worrisome, but:
If she’s a wolf, then the wolves thought Rikae was the seer. If they didn’t think so, it would be a terribly incriminating pick, even if Rikae gave them hunter/ranger vibes - hunter and ranger are typically not super effective early in the game, so you could safely leave Rikae for later and kill somebody else. The thing is, the way Rikae raised her suspicion on Brinn did not have a seerish vibe to me. If Brinn is not a wolf this leaves a greater variety of possible reasons. The wolves’ prime target is the seer, but what do they do if they don’t see one yet? You can’t seer hunt on flimsy hunches: it’s pretty bad for a pack if every night’s kill has the same subset of suspects and it's them. If you’re clueless about the seer, offing someone who might be ranger or hunter, or who would likely be the most innocent-looking person the next day, or whose death will frame innocents - or ideally a combination or all of the above - is a sensible course. This gives me enough reason to leave Brinniel be for now. Quote:
Also, you’re right, we’ve both played tons of games, but we’ve never been in the same one together! Also, to those who say “the wolves don’t pick their kill just to frame someone” - who says just? Quote:
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I am not fond of either Greenie or Lommy right now. At all. Been rethinking Kitanna. While I obviously disagree with her case against me, I do feel like Kitanna’s accusations against me are a lot more earnest than Greenie and Lommy’s. Her taunting of Gala right before the deadline is also something only the boldest wolf would dare, I think. I’m gonna leave her and Legate be for now. I feel the itch to make a suspicion list, but there are a whole number of people I haven’t been able to look at consistently, so I hope I’ll get to it. |
Okay, and I am getting bad vibe from Lottie's post above.
It essentially says "I am suspicious of the people who did something toDay that has provoked controversy" - that could easily also mean "I am a Wolf waiting for people to pick which of the bandwagons that are offering themselves toDay would be the best to ride on". These are literally all the things that were controversial toDay, stated by someone else, so I could imagine Lothwolf writing it here to "butter up" people who first stated it. I am wary. Similar kind of behaviour I have been noticing toDay still also in Huinesoron, to a degree - even though in his case, it is rather along the lines of "I comment on XY, but then again just so that you don't think, I do not really mean it, but thought you should know". I have been feeling a bit better about Kitanna - her lengthy analyses lean more genuine - but I am still very much on the verge about her. There are lots of people who are on my mind now, but I'll be on-and-off for a while now still, so excuse random tidbits. EDIT: x-ed with Pitch and onwards |
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With five wolves, is it plausible none of them saw the post before I asked about it the next Day!? x/d with Legate |
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Which is exactly what I'd expect from an innocent! I'm not seeing anyone jumping out at me as a wolf, so I'm worried the whole thing is just villagers savaging villagers while the wolves look on and laugh. I've also been wanting to see more from Mac, and I see he posted right before you did. Time to see what he has to say for himself. hS |
In no real order....
Mac seems too paranoid to be true. Steve's vote seems more suspect the more I think about it. Brinn gives me no read, which is worrisome, and therefore a bit suspicious. Lottie is acting quite strangely, and engages in topics I think an innocent Pop would normally avoid. Urwen no longer matters, so I'm not going to bother reading through her posts right now. x'd since Pitch because I've been busy :( |
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Also, I don't like how we're discussing Kit, so those engaging in that discussion strike me as inherently more suspicious than those not. Just a random thought.
x'd with Lottie |
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I kinda agree with everything Sally has said after her return, but somehow it makes me rather more than less suspicious of her. She's mostly echoing sentiments of other players, and fairly uncontested ones at that. She couldn't be less controversial if she tried.
I'm flip-flopping on Lottie again. She seems to make sense from her own pov, but I'm not sure it's an innocent pov. Mac's defence of himself didn't really make me less suspicious of him, but it did make me a little more suspicious of Greenie. Hmmm... |
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In such a big game, it's easier for me to focus on a few people at a time, rather than try to get a read on everyone and stressing myself out. My previous (twice removed) post is just who I'm reading as especially suspicious right now, so I'm unlikely to vote toDay for someone who isn't on that list. It's also getting closer to the end of the Day, so I think people might want to start making up their minds on who they're voting for, but I know that's easier said than done. :eek:
Unfortunately I passed out illogically early last night and didn't get the chance to post until this morning, so I'm sorry about that. I'll try to do better over the weekend, for sure. |
Oh my goodness RL stuff has meant time has really got away from me toDay. This is going to have to be quicker than I would like.
Rikae surely had to be a suspected Gifted kill, I simply can't see the point of it otherwise, so all these 'I'm being framed' theories make no sense to me. Mac thinking he's being framed, Inzil thinking there could be a frame related to Brinn, Brinn suggesting it was a frame on her Quote:
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Have looked over Mac's #405, and I don't like it. He seems to be focussing heavily on the people who suspect him, and explaining why that must make them wolves. Okay, I've read enough Werewolf to know that innocents do this, but a) so do wolves, and with a good deal more urgency, and b) didn't Mac spend a big post early toDay explaining how he thinks G55 thought he was a wolf? He even brings it up again here.
And yes, there are more details, but with the amount of words that have been thrown around you can build some kind of case against everyone. The fact remains that his case against Greenie relies heavily on 'this is exactly how I’d expect a Green wolf to act'. At the moment, my vote would probably go to Mac or Pitch. Pitch has been looking better toDay, but as I said (earlier toDay, I think?), I tend to read him as reasonable when he's responding to me anyway. So I need to go back and read him over again. Lommy has... has she been posting? Right, a bit at the end of page 9, and onto 10. That explains why she hasn't struck me as suspicious for a while - she's not been here? I'll look over her as well, but my memory is that I've felt slightly better about her toDay. The Zil/Lottie connection seems to have evaporated, so I'm tentatively calling Lottie innocent (and see no reason to change my earlier placing of Greenie and Legate in that category). Zil has... wow, has really been pushing this Kit-discussion, hasn't he? Leaning against trusting him still. Crossposts from people named above: Lommy is back and, oh stars, literally saying 'flip-flopping'. :D But I think I'm getting a feel for her style, and this doesn't feel wolfish. I'll still reread to check what I was worried about before (too many villagers, I can't remember who did what!) Zil has posted with... a short, zero-content post. 'Short' seems to be his style, but #412 does take it to extremes. Overtones of 'let me drop back into the shadows'. So I stand by my 'wolfish' read. (Crossed with everything from #409.) hS |
Quick list
Seems fine for now (won't vote unless something changes)
Shastanis Althreduin - As said above, seems innocent or a VERY bold wolf. Satansaloser2005 - Haven't seen much of her, but what I have doesn't seem suspicious. THE Ka - She seemed good yesterDay, and hasn't done much to change that. Huinesoron - Nothing pinging any alarm bells so far. Lots of well-thought-out posts. Lalaith - Not enough to go on, but nothing seems bad yet. Lhunardawen - Making good points, seems to generally be on the side of the village. A Little Green - Seems fine so far. Wary of (Probably wouldn't vote unless something changes) Rune Son of Bjarne - Maybe his suspicions and self-proclaimed bias against me have me watch him more carefully/too closely, but I don't suspect him enough to vote for him. Kath - Something about her recent posts have given me wolfy vibes, so I'm watching her closely. Dangerous (Could vote, but not my first choice) Kitanna - Not sure what to think of her now, but I haven't taken her off the hook completely. Legate of Amon Lanc Pitchwife Brinniel Macalaure Inziladun Alarm bells (Would vote) Thinlómien - She's seemed more possibly wolfy to me toDay. One thing is that she seems to have backed off from Boro without much warning - maybe afraid that a manufactured Boro suspicion was gaining too much traction? Boromir88 - I don't like his list ignoring non Brinn/G55 voters, or in fact that post as whole - it exonerates him a lot by implication - he's not on the list, and he says that the first vote for someone is innocent (which he did, but isn't available on the list). Also, see Lommy. To look into (No idea) Loslote - She hasn't set off any alarm bells yet for me, but I've seen her mentioned as suspicious quite a bit. Boro suspects her for her vote yesterDay (#324), and Lommy thinks she's 'looking at things from a very wolfy pov' (#387). Whether this is real or manufactured suspicion remains to be seen, and I'm going to have to reread her posts to see if I agree. Note: sorry, I have very limited time again toDay, and hopefully will be able to post more later. I have to leave right now. Unfortunately, this means I have to leave those last few names in the Dangerous section uncommented - some might get upgraded to the Alarm Bells category when I get a chance to look at them more deeply, but I didn't want to put them there without further reflection. edit: x-ed since Lottie's #404 |
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++Macalaure
Can I now say "let's make this more interesting"? :p But seriously though, someone's gotta start, and it might as well be me since I have a clear main suspect and he's had a chance to defend himself but I didn't really buy it. Will continue to pop in and out until the DL! edit: xed with Legate |
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Shasta
Post #63: Banter about cobbler Post #64: Banter about Lady Macbeth Post #65: +1 for Inzil. I assume one point for a comeback...? Post #66: Likes something Lottie says about a no lynch idea from G55. Post #67: Says he's contributed enough to look like he's particpating. Says he'd vote for Lommy. But clearly a joke. Post #175: Returns from his slumber to let us know here's reading through. Post #188: Quote:
Post #190: Responds to a Lottie, one I believe is about keeping an eye on Brinn Post #191: Reiterates finding Rikae innocent and G55 cobblerish. Also finds some suspcion in Pitch/Eonwe Post #192: Asks for more context on a Pitch post Post #197: Digs in on Greenie's analysis. Going so far as to say an evil Greenie might mean an evil Ka. Most of the post is just benign reponses to what Greenie said of everyone. Post #198: Responds to a comment from Pitch Post #201: Likes a post Ka made. Post #204: Quote:
Post #211: Response to a Greenie Post #215: Makes a bad pun/dad joke. I point to the door of my office and yell "get out" to no one. Post #229: Time check for self based on Inzil's comment about "last night?!" Post #233: Response to Pitch Post #239: Votes Pitch Post #248: Not comfortable with Greenie or Eonwe's votes. Post #322: Quote:
Shasta hasn't been back since. A few others have mentioned feeling ok or good about him. To me, I mean, seems genuine in his short posts, but I'm finding it hard to truly sort him out. |
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Ideally, I would've voted Inzil or Kit for the reasons I mentioned yesterDay. But between Pitch and G55, yes I would've preferred Pitch as I thought him more suspicious than her. |
I have spent more time on WW than my actual job today. Oops. I get done an hour before DL and hope to get more analysis done then.
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Last few thoughts before I vote. It's waaay too late here already. :(
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I'm just... Lost. Shouldn't one back off from suspecting someone because of what they said, not because you're worried about what others would think if you end up voting for an innocent? Not helping your case here. I'm in the camp that finds Eönwë's vote yesterDay suspicious, and his posts so far today don't ease that feeling. Quote:
Might vote for one of these toDay: Mac but almost too out there a choice, I'm finding his posts difficult to reconcile with what I know of an InfectedMac Lommy Brinn Bears looking at more closely: Boro Kath Huin Zil Kit Eönwë Everyone else, either I can't put a finger on or flying off my radar or there's just not enough space/energy for now. |
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I’m not really getting the hint they had a belief in Rikae being a gifted such as a Seer, but possibly another gifted role and barring that, settled with if Rikae was an innocent then they’d want them out of the way to play on other’s bias of who was most critical of them (sans G55) and knowing that there might not be another innocent who'd engage as eagerly with Rikae (thus causing some bait to see who would be an easy pick) in an argument. Quote:
So, why does Mac want to be a point of attention? Who benefits from Mac’s performance is really what I’m wondering. Quote:
Ranger is arguably one of the more key gifted roles next to Seer. You’d want to remain concealed as much as possible in order to see from the game Day who you need to protect that Night. If someone pretends to be your role? Oh well. You can’t immediately go after them the next Day in game without drawing obvious attention. G55 throwing out there last minute about ‘But I’m a Ranger!’ was as duping delight as a cobbler could get. :rolleyes: |
I'm sorry, I'm very short on time toDay and won't be back again before the deadline so I need to vote now. I've skim read since my last post just to get the general gist of where everyone is but haven't looked at anything much in detail.
The person jumping out to me right now is Inzil and it's because of the Kit thing. So I'm being a total hypocrite by talking about it again. Quote:
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And then he seemed quite defensive when people said that they didn't like it all being brought up. ++INZIL |
Feel good about
Legate - I wasn't sure yesterDay, but his posts toDay give me an innocent vibe. Kitanna - If she's lying, we'll find out eventually. For now I see no reason to distrust her. Shasta - I really like how he handled the Kit situation, trying to defuse it without drawing attention to it. Feel okay about Greenie - I've liked some of her points, and I feel like she's being very helpful. I don't have a strong enough sense of her to put her in the "good" category, though. Huinesoron - I like the way he's thinking about the game, which makes me feel generally okay about him. I do see some of the points people have made about his summaries not always being completely accurate, though, and that's something to keep an eye on - in particular, do his summaries end up resulting in a cohesive misleading campaign? Lhuna - I've liked what I've seen so far toDay. She seems to be helpful and thoughtful. Brinniel - I didn't get any sense at the deadline yesterDay that any wolves were trying to swing the vote away from her. Moreover, I've been getting an innocent vibe from her. I don't want to assume innocence, though, so I won't let my feeling that wolves were not trying to save her push her into the "good" category. I could be wrong - a lot of people get a very different feeling from her - but I don't suspect her at this point. Feel dubious about Pitchwife - I go back and forth on Pitch. I got a wolfy vibe yesterDay, and I'm torn on his involvement with the Kit-Zil thing earlier. I don't have him at the top of my suspicion list, but I don't trust him either. Lommy - I get a vaguely positive vibe from her, but then I end up disagreeing with most of what she actually says. I don't know if we're just coming from very different perspectives, but I end up not knowing what to think about her. Feel bad about Zil - He'd been largely flying under the radar for me, right up until he pointed out the Kit thing, which I found highly suspicious. I don't know what motivation an innocent would have in bringing it up. I could easily see that being something the wolves planned out over Night. Boro - I haven't been comfortable with his posts toDay. Like Lommy, he could just be approach this from a completely opposite perspective than I am, but I get a bad feeling from him. Mac - I started to be suspicious of him yesterDay, and his posts today have been worrying. Specifically, his posts about being framed felt a little pre-planned to me - like he knew Rikae was going to die and had time to work himself up about their death implicating him. Feel nothing about Kath - I think what I've seen has been pretty reasonable, but she's flying under my radar. Almost put her in "okay", but I don't have a strong enough feeling. Lalaith - ditto Kath - what I've seen has felt fine, but I haven't gotten a really good sense. Eönwë - I haven't seen enough to get a feeling one way or the other. Rune - No read at all, I'd almost be inclined to put him in "dubious" just based on a vague feeling but it's not strong enough or based on anything, so I'll reserve judgement until I have a better read. THE Ka - ditto Kath and Lalaith - seems helpful, but flying under my radar. Sally - I haven't seen enough from her to get a good reading on her yet, totally under my radar. I don't like how many people I don't have a read on, but in such a big village, it's hard to get a sense from everyone. I will probably vote for someone in my 'bad feeling' category, unless someone in my 'dubious' or 'no feeling' categories does something particularly suspicious. |
Okay, reading over my main suspects (Mac, Pitch, Lommy, Zil, in that order for now):
Mac: Thought innocent yesterDay, but realised today that was down to not trusting the way people were suspecting him, when those people were a (now) known and a probable innocent. ToDay, launched straight into 'what if everyone thinks I'm a wolf', and starts in on Kitanna, which is an interesting line in view of, y'know... Kitanna. And he keeps trying to implicate the people who suspect him. I really don't like this. Pitchwife: My chief suspect yesterDay, for his actions in the GLP & several 'just asking questions' posts; also his position on the Brinn-wagon (both suspicion and voting). Launches toDay with "this may implicate Brinn, except isn't that almost too obvious?" - I'm starting to view this less as 'just asking questions', and more as 'they will say both no and yes'. He suspects Zil with no explanation (at the time), and later pushes both the start and the stop of the Kit discussion, including one 'saw it as I was writing' crosspost that makes me feel like his post was intended to take credit for starting the 'let's shut it down' discussion. Lommy: My second suspect yesterDay, mostly for reasons of tone I think. ToDay, she seems a lot better. #350 is a good example of this - she's not sitting there saying 'yes, but maybe no', she's analysing the evidence for both (all) sides of the discussion. And she's cast the first vote, too. Zil: Completely off my radar yesterDay; it's those short posts of his. Today, spent a fair few posts talking about things we know aren't true, such as Rikae-wolf; even more posts on the Kit discussion; really, I'm seeing a lot of posts where Zil's contribution is shorter than what he's replying to! It may be just his style, so he's not top of my list, but he does look (at least at times) like a wolf trying to look active without having to say much. I'm starting to worry I might just trust people who write long posts on multiple topics. :-/ Okay, at the moment I'm likely to vote Mac, but will take Pitch as still looking about as suspicious as yesterday (Mac's just more suspicious). Lommy I'm going to call neutral for now. Zil I think there's a better-than-even chance is a wolf. At the moment, two of my top three have 1 vote each. It's going to be interesting to see who gets offered up to take the heat off them... hS |
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Right now my vote could go to either Mac or Zil. |
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Can barely keep my eyes open anymore, so ++THINLÓMIEN Parting shot: Friendly reminder, a bandwagon does not start with the first vote. |
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I talked about 6 people, 3 of which suspected me, 2 of which I suspect in turn. Yeah, that post focuses on that a bit more than it should, but your summary is not honest. Anyway, I’ve been meaning to clear my mind suspicion wise. Seem innocent Kath THE Ka Seem innocent-ish Kitanna Pitch Wary, but not worried too much Legate - he seems more scattered than usual, maybe that’s just me Huin - seems very helpful and productive, but sometimes feels odd Boro - kind of like that, too Brinniel - torn right here Like heck do I know (this is the part I gotta work on trimming down) Loslote Lhuna Inzil Lalaith Eonwe Rune Sally Shasta Alarm bells Lommy - Greenie - not because they suspect me (I know I set myself up to be suspected the way I’ve acted), but because the way they do it is sketchy as hell |
Also, to address this quickly:
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Ok, so reading has caught up to date. I made brief notes on things that were addressed to me.
Respond to saying sally's vote looked suspicious: Quote:
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If that doesn't quite explain it well enough, for further understanding of why I'm not interested in throw away votes that didn't matter to a cobbler being lynched...see my next point below. Response to Legate and Eonwe's accusations with my focus on the G55/Brinn wagons. In all seriousness, am I the only one who's frustrated by the thought of thousands of paths and leads going every which way? One person can't possibly consider everything that you expect me to consider. I forget who, someone said we have a boring/unadventurous wolf pack. I think we have 5 wolves pulling things in 500 different ways and some are vocal leading the paths, others are laying low/joining in to different paths. I'm one person. Right? I can't consider everything and to lump it on my desk "Boro didn't look at this" "Boro didn't look at that", is just flat wrong. "That must mean he's saying there can't be a wolf in the non-G55/Brinn voters." No, I didn't say that at all and that looks straight up suspicious. I just said I wasn't going to look into it. You went and looked into it. Great. Thank you. Seriously, thank you. It means I can look at what you say and make some judgements about you and the non-G55/Brinn voters. Edit: crossed with a bunch |
Lottie, how is it that my involvement in the Zil-Kit thing is suspicious, whereas Lhuna, who was also involved (and made sure to point the issue out in case somebody had overlooked Zil's ealier post?) is 'helpful and thoughtful'?
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Home and catching up.
A thought I thought last night before bed - a possible reason for a Rikae kill is that they were onto something with their train of thought re: the anti-Brinn wagon. Weigh in, please. |
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Ok I wasn't going to say anything about The Kit Thing but seeing as it's being openly discussed - *glares at certain people* -
Could the people who are still putting Kit in the 'slightly/fairly' suspicious category please explain to me - how would a Kitwolf know G55 was lying about being a Ranger? All a Kitwolf would know was that G55 was not a wolf. |
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