Does everyone make you feel this way? It's just I've noticed you've been saying that line a lot during this game...

Okay, when I was reading what you wrote last night I thought you were meaning the exact opposite.
Anyways, I don't think I completely downplaying the possibility of a wolfish vote there. When I wrote "Only if the EW told him to..." I was still considering it was possible. Honestly, I'm just flat out unsure whether Legate's vote was actually wolfish or an innocent's mistake.

Coming soon: A post on my thoughts of all the players. It may take awhile, but hopefully it'll help me come up with a voting candidate.

If you look at other WW villages I've been in, if possible I always hold my vote till the very end. One time in particular I actually foiled a WW by sitting on my vote and forcing him to show his cards. That's simply my style. It makes me feel more... in control.

There were three votes still out there, thus Agan had a very real chance of tying with Nerwen, and if that had happened I was considering voting for her. But of course if I jumped forward suddenly to tie Ner I was going to cast a vote for her.

Okay, hello everybody, I'm finally here. (I was just planning to go to see friends after school but we got an ex tempore idea to go to see Blackmore's Night live, so I only got home now.) Now I will dedicate the rest of the evening (night?) to this game, starting with a massive reading process... :eek: :D

DEAR GOD.

I started reading this like an hour and a half ago. I was fresh and ready to form opinions, now I'm tired and I want to curl up in a corner and whimper. I knew I should have gotten up earlier today to read posts, but there were epic, violent thunderstorms for several hours this morning which kept me up.

At least I have three hours to give it some thought. But based on my initial readthrough... wow, Roa and phantom were in rare form last night. I've seen people saying how we should ignore them. Frankly this whole argument (which is about as epic and violent as the thunderstorms) makes me just die to know who and what they both are. On the other hand, it's the most entertaining stuff going on around here (I mean, I'd rather read a good smackdown than a by-the-numbers re-cap any day) and I'll be sorry when it's over.

So does my love of drama, or my curiosity to find out their respective identities win out?

Hmmmm.

Everyone else seems so vanilla in comparison that I'm having trouble forming opinions or focus on any of them. At least not after slogging through posts for a solid hour and a half.

I'm going to go make popcorn.

Okay, just so everyone knows, I haven't read through everything, because I don't have time. (I've got 15 minutes from now, which is 12:56 PM PT).

First, phantom, you're statistics aren't even logical, because you leave out : a. the hunter, b. the ranger, and c. the EW herself, who might change a gifted into an ordo instead of an ordo into a gifted, thus keeping the wolf population down.

Second, those who think losing the seer isn't such a bad thing, consider what would happen if it was Day 4 and the EW knew the GW's identity. She could then challenge and take the GW out before she had a chance to replace the seer, and the village would be in trouble. Who was saying that again?

Third, for everyone who is concerned that I'm focusing too much on phantom, well, duh. I am thoroughly convinced he's evil. Why should I look at people I am uncertain of when I have one that I am certain of right in front of me? I mean, even now, he's gone from saying, "I think you're innocent and don't want to lynch you," to "I think Roa's a wolf trying to get me. Let's lynch her."

Fourth, I have a feeling that this is the last time I will be able to do this, because I may well be killed or wolf-ified and then lynched to discredit me, (as I did with Valier), so here:

The EW:

In the last game, I took care to avoid people that might be scried by the GW, not so much because I was worried about losing a wolf (until morm accidentally found me out) but because if we scried the same people on the same Night, my identity would be revealed. That is not the case this game. If the wolf doesn't know anything, then losing him to the GW may not be so bad. However, if the GW and the EW scry the same person in a Night, that person dies. This is a third kill for the evil team! The GW is the one who will be avoiding scrying possible EW picks in order to keep innocents from dying. (Which, by the way, is why I believe the phantom will not be picked by the GW.)

So lose the mentality that the EW won't pick likely GW scries for scrying. It will only mislead you into to looking away from those that could be wolves. Until we know who the EW is, we have no way of knowing who they might have picked. YOU CANNOT RULE ANYONE OUT FOR THE REASON THAT THEY ARE UNLIKELY PICKS. The EW may have very well counted on that thinking. Until we know who the EW is, you must look at everyone with equal possibility.

Finally, even if you don't think anything I said about phantom has merit, please, please, go back and look at what I said about the EW and her possible behavior.

I have to go. Honestly, it might be better if you lynch me toDay. ToMorrow, I may be a wolf, and then you won't know what to trust, and what I said that was helpful or a lie. I'm not so worried about being wolf-ified to save phantom, but more that it will cause people to mistrust the advice I've given regarding the EW.

To Nog- I didn't doubt that you would have counted my vote had it been posted on time. I just didn't want to, as you said, make the thread look less neat.
Guys, the Agan is feeling objectified.
Vote Legate then. I believe I've answered questions about me quite beautifully, thank you.

Stop, stop, the popularity contest won't be fun if there's such a clear favourite. :p

Sometimes that's what Werewolf is; so don't complain to me when you're hanging there. ;)

Not everyone. For example today you and Legate look like wolves who know each other. :p

Well the thing I posted a while ago was what I thought already then but couldn't just say clearly.
I never said you were "completely downplaying" it. But you downplayed it anyway, and that "only if the EW told him to" doesn't really make it any better.
It was something both a wolf or an innocent would have said - it is true and there's no sense in trying to deny it, as someone would have suggested it anyway in reply to you. So you both encouraged people not to suspect Legate and left yourself a chance to change your mind later (if it started to seem Legate would get lynched).

edit: xed with phantom and Cailín

Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?

Bah, I'm slowly getting nowhere in finishing my re-reading. Too much multi-tasking.



X'd with Cailin and Aganzir.

Hanging where?

I don't completely disagree with that.
Ack! I have no idea what to think about that. Does it support the innocent-tearing-innocent-apart theory? Who would say this, Ordo-Roa or WW-Roa?
Hmm... I think so. At least I don't think any of my answers contained hidden agendas. Some of my defenses/accusations of others and such do have hidden agendas of a kind, but all of my answers to those questioning me were very straight-forward.

Yeah, wasn't clear about that, but didn't want to edit. I was referring to the big village tree.

Actually, Diamond does seem to be hiding behind a bit of bluster. Let me just go and investigate her in more depth. :p

I really want to ignore both Roa and phantom so they end up stuck just talking to each other. I don't want either of them to have the satisfaction of the other being lynched or of themselves being lynched.

On the other hand, I'm with Di in my curiosity.

Anyway.

I'm not even going to attempt to read through everything. Hopefully something interesting will happen before the deadline.

Aganzir has been getting tossed around quite a bit. Target?

Interesting analysis. I rather think it's the other way around, though.

Ah, I wasn't sure if you were being literal (threatening) or figurative.

But I am sure not to complain when I'm lynched. I like a good death scene.

And if you mount a successful campaign on me like you did to Nerwen, I shall laugh and laugh. Because being responsible for starting a bandwagon against two innocents in a row would make you the next lynch victim, to be sure. (Though, I'm really not that innocent.)

I was reading the thread throughout th day (at school), Its just that I by the time I'd finished reading there were always more.

I have never played WW before, anywhere.

I'm somewhere in btween the first two (after all, I've never played any form of WW before.

Ok- thats cleared, hopefully. I've never played Werewolf.

You're quite an intriguing case, Diamond. For all the posts that you've made -- way more than the quiet players -- I can't see a single interesting point that you've offered. Well, maybe that whole bit about being a rebel and not especially on the villagers' side. And there's the questioning of the phantom for his vote, which you get 'bored' with.

But it looks to me like you're hiding in the open, and a bit eager to express how you don't really feel a part of the game -- i.e. have an evil role.

That was not the reason. I had already built up a whole case, but sadly never had time to post it (and now it's lost, (precious, lost!)). I was also a slight joke (Digest? Hmm?:rolleyes:). Anyway, I still find him kinda suspicious. The "Vote me! Lynch me! scry me! curse me" idea and there's the whole "Am I a WW or am I the EW" thing too.

Anyway, I'll finish reading posts and then post my thoughts

x-ed with Cailin

Have you ever played with Di, Cailin?

Oh yes, you must have. I remember your EW pick list.

Ah! the phantom is both, the good and the evil wizard at once! :eek:


That's how I feel, too. Less joking, less niceness, more blood, please.


Well, I haven't become any wiser on who to vote for since my last post. Here's my options for today:

Somewhat suspicious
Legate, Aganzir

A vague bad feeling
Kath, Rikae, Diamond, Cailin, Roa, Lalaith, Celuien, McCaber

Not really suspicious, but not too sure
Lily, Izzy, Nilp, Sally, phantom, Lhuna, Brinniel, Ka, morm, Gwath

Rather unsuspicious
Shasta, Lommy, Eonwe, Durelin

As you can see, I have very sharp opinions on almost all of you. :rolleyes:


edit: cross-posted with.... many

Blargh. Every time I start to think that I'll catch up, there's just more and more. :eek:

Of course, tp and Roa sort of dominated most of the pages. I don't know what to make of the extensiveness of the argument... in some ways, I'd almost expect them to have a 'duel' if they disagreed about something - they're probably two of the (ahem) strongest personalities I've come across in werewolfing. And these loud tussles have tended to be between innocents when I've run across them before, so I think that points to both of them being non-evil - or at least that's what I hope, because if there's anyone who would be bold enough to have a very visible fight while concealing a dark secret, it would probably be one of them.

So I think I'm going to ignore the fighting for now and see what happens...

Back to reading.

Roa: ++Phantom (Phantom1)
Lhuna: ++Mac (Phantom1, Mac1)
Nilp: ++McCaber (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1)
Gwath: ++Lalaith (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1, Lalaith1)
Morm: ++Brinniel (Phantom1, Mac1, McCaber1, Lalaith1, Brinniel1)

Votes are getting extremely spread out again; Mac still looks wrong, but Legate looks worse... however, Mac's already been voted for; Legate has not. Two hours left for voting, so I'll hold off a bit.

I'm back, I'm back! (I'm pink, I'm pink... wait, that was different. Nevermind.)

Anyway, I see it doesn't seem that bad, only two pages while I've been away... hope to catch up in a short while! *Drowns deep into reading*

Interesting points, being helpful, talking substance etc. are so passe. I want arguments! Bitter ones! I want to read magnificent rows and passionate defenses! Sadly only Roa and phantom are delivering, though yesterday you and Newen and Mac and Legate were runners up.

tp did answer my question, sort of, by way of actually addressing Ka, and so I found it boring to pursue him any longer when I'm sure he'd just reference that post. Probably I could have gotten out some knives and gone at him, oh well at least Roa did. :)

Perhaps I will fabricate some harsh opinions on people to get things going.

Di! How could you?! She's a wolf, I swear it, she and her fellow evil cohorts and that witch of an Evil Wizard! I swear, Diamond, I will come after you relentlessly until you have paid for what you have done!!

(How's that? :p)

An improvement.

Shasta, weren't we wolves together once? And didn't we eat the village? Yes, yes, I do believe we did. You're one of those super uber sneaky wolves whom no one suspects, dangerous sort of fellow to have around.

I'll be watching you.

I agree with Diamond. Unfortunately, I can't fabricate passion from thin air, so it will have to wait until someone ticks me off (probably by attacking Mac :rolleyes:).

Aww look, she remembered! <3

Yes, the one time I wasn't an ordo, I was a wolf with you. I believe our cohorts were none other than Brinn and Mac, if I'm not mistaken. And I seem to remember that I wasn't the only one classified as a "sneaky" wolf, Miss Diamond.

I'll be watching you right back.

I find it funny that Isabel seems to have been quietly following in Roa's footsteps the past two days, focusing on nothing but general debates and the phantom, and yet she voted for Roa.

We got the idea. :p

Looking back, it's interesting how much Lommy urged on the Aganzir "bandwagon," testing the waters repeatedly before making the first vote.

Shasta posted something vaguely interesting!

++Cabbie



What are the odds I could go back to work now and explain this more in-depth toMorrow? Not likely, so I'll do my best in a minute or less. Cabbie's not acting right; it's hard to explain with so little time but I'll try to get a post ready for toMorrow, but at the moment he just seems off and it worries me, that and he's been quiet and all. The only real concrete evidence I've got is his Nerwen vote, but even that could have been just a poorly-placed suspicion. I don't know. I have to go. Sorry. :(

Is it just me or is this strangely reminiscent of Gwath's vote?

Always happy to be of entertainment value. :p

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber

McCaber- 2
tp- 1
Mac- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1

Phantom, I often see your side of things and give you the benefit of the doubt, but you have about double the number of posts as the next highest. Why'd you lose your ability to post like a proper player? :p

I'm not sure who to vote for yet. Sally still looks dodgy to me; Diamond's just itching for me to choose her ( :D ) and I'm suspicious of Gwathagor and Brinniel.

Hmm. After all of the reading and attempted thinking, I'm not really any closer to definite suspicions than I was at the beginning. I wish I had time for more thorough reasoning... call this a hunch, but I do have a vaguely bad feeling about Cailín - partly for this directed at Di:
And I find Di unsuspicious. So...

++ Cailín

Thanks for making my reading process take even more time because after the ending I had to check if there were any "l"'s involved in the "back"s...

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

Okay, then off to talk some sense.

I cannot really understand why no one has brought up the reason that looks very obvious to me for Volo and Kit's death. They were both good players but not ones valued as much as they probably should (sort of "slip under the radar ww masters"), involved in the game in mediocre amounts and have a tendeny to survive. Perfect gifted picks for the GW? I think so, at least along with a couple more similar-style players. Now, the EW would realise this too (surely if he's trying to find gifteds?) and decide to kill them. And he got lucky with nailing the seer. I don't believe that anyone would have been able to find a seer hint from Volo's posts (maybe because I couldn't...). (Although, if I had to name a person who could have spotted Volo acting seerish, it would be a certain miss whose name begins with A and ends with r...)

As for Roa and phantom, I wasn't as foolish as some *coughMaccough* to skip their debate. It lead me to believe that at least one of them is evil. The possible combinations are (innocent means ordo, gifted or GW here) EW+wolf, wolf+wolf (I can so see the Ew telling them to keep fighting and take all the attention, this also goes for the possibility of either of them actually being the EW), wolf+innocent (again, EW wanting to stir more trouble and mislead the village) or even EW + innocent, but that seems a little improbable. Because of this, I'm very inclined to vote one of them toDay, probably tp, because he seems less innocent and is less reasonable and to be honest is more annoying. (Besides, reading the thread becomes far less time-consuming if we kill him off... ;))

I could also vote Agan, she keeps being very odd and jumpy. Of other I really can't say. I would need more time to think...

Now sorry dear but this is plain jumpy once aga(i)n. I don't really understand why you criticise me for using my knowledge of you. I use my knowledge of everybody all the time. Frankly, such thing could not be forbidden or else we (meaning all us ww players) could not play unless we had never met one another before anywhere. It's pointless to separate some knowledge to be RL-knowledge and some to be BD-knowledge. If I had some extra knowledge of some player from PMs or MSN, which one would it be? If I had some extra knowledge of some player because of reading some BD thread, which one would it be? Plain silly. I can tell you that even if I didn't know you from RL, I would guess that you'd enjoy being a wizard, especially the evil one. You know, it kind of glows of you... *Mr Hugo expression* Lastly, I never claimed you said you wanted to be the EW. I only stated it as my opinion of you.

I do not claim that! I definitely don't! I don't think that way! (Hey, using more exclamation marks than Legate... :smokin: ) Really, that was a bad accusation. Are you just annoyed that for once I have an inkling that you're evil, I'm not clueless once again? Or are you annoyed because I dare to suspect you more than probably ever before? Whatever, it's silliness. I'm far from confident of your guilt, but I do suspect you. I don't claim I know you're guilty. I don't. I just have a bad feeling about you and I can't see what's so wrong with it...

Sorry for getting a bit heated but Agan's points annoy me. :p

The last thing that really stands out to me that I don't like it how Rikae first plays the idea of being a wolf and then jokes about being EW as her previous and future initials are E.W. Okay, I can understand the latter as it's quite funny, but combined it to the "I'm a wolf"-comment it is worth a little eyebrow-raising...


edit: xed with tp, Cailie and Cel

What a bizarre reason for a vote.

Lommy starts her Day 1 by saying that our primary duty is to find and lynch the wolves but be aware of EWish vibes as well, and if we think someone looks more like the EW than anyone looks like a wolf, she should be lynched. Well yes it all looks sensible and nice, but I honestly don't know whether it's because I have "decided" Lommy must be a baddie and therefore interpret everything in that light, or if it really is somehow too nice. Ok, maybe better I quote it.
The "perfect opinion". It nicely covers every aspect of the who-should-be-looked-for thing and looks ah so sweet and innocent a wolf would love to look.

Lommy suggests the EW can be found by looking at how living people have treated the dead wolves. She says herself it's not much, and I'm quite inclined to agree with her. I am pretty sure the EW can play well enough not to look like she was somehow connected to the wolves, and if she doesn't reveal her identity to the wolves she shouldn't have a reason to worry about them either. However, innocent people may have - and most likely some actually have - treated the wolves so that it looks like they were in cahoots with them. The suggestion, however innocent it looks like, is likely to cause more harm than good (or then Lommy is just being very optimistic, which, mind you, is not characteristical for her).

Eek, I don't sit right with Lommy after one in character post in which I jokingly accused people on basis of their family relations or occupation. :eek: She explains her dislike for me with RL reasons:
She promises to keep an eye on me, and in her next post these RL reasons have become serious suspicion.

I don't like comments like these. "She looks innocent but don't forget she can be treacherous and deceive you! Keep an eye on her! Don't let the innocent-looking pass!"
Wolves just want to create havoc, and one way is to confuse people by saying something like this.

There again.
Somehow she seems to pick those she accuses and who defends in a nice way; disagrees with some loudmouths to a convenient extent, not enough to make them suspect her but enough not to look like she was trying to gain allies or be nice. And it's defending people that gives allies, not agreeing with them.

She cannot say exactly why I remind her of Agan-wolf who didn't know her fellows but there's "a freaky similarity".
I'd really like to know more about that "freaky similarity".

This quote just makes me nervous. I don't really know a certain reason but I'll try to elaborate.
"I know she's innocent/the EW wants her dead, let's see if I could get people to suspect her. If not I'll vote someone else, he-he, now I say this so no one really wonders if I drop my suspicion later."

Someone already mentioned this but I want to bring it up again. I have more than once seen wolves phrase their suspicion like that, as a question that's just supposed to make people feel a bit uneasy. "Is it because of x, or could there be more sinister reasons?" I'm not saying innocents don't do it as well, but more rarely than wolves I think.

She seizes on McCab saying he will return with some more solid info. I guess I'm not the best one to accuse anyone of suspecting someone because of how something is phrased, but seizing on one single word is beyond even me.

Now this is true, and it's the only thing she could have said there because I would have complained otherwise.

She said if she doesn't have suspicions by the time she leaves, she will vote for a submarine. Well what was suspecting me then? Not a suspicion?

Then...
Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her? In the beginning it was all the same for her whether I'd be lynched or not and now she'd love to vote for me.

Then she could vote for me or Kath (whom she hadn't really mentioned if I remember correctly, too lazy to go back to check but she definitely hadn't suspected her).

Ai ai ai. If you want to know, I do have the time, I volunteered for the EW when Nog encouraged people to do so (mightn't have otherwise), wasn't chosen and that's it. And I'm just happy I wasn't since when I think about it I'm really not sure if I could have handled it.

I don't consider having the second most votes "a tiny danger".

**

Lommy's points against me are taken out of thin air. It looks much more like a deliberate decision to start to suspect someone than actual suspicion because someone is suspicious - gradually switching from random IC reasons to gut feelings and then making my posts look suspicious.

Yes, I admit that I am suspicious of her because she is of me, but because I know I am innocent and her suspicion doesn't make sense (well and she hasn't been doing much else than accusing me so maybe it's understandable?).

I'm pretty positive Lommy isn't the EW though, she is too daring and suspicious to be that. I'd expect the EW to keep a bit lower profile and not looking so plain wolfish. A wolf with orders to create as much havoc and lynch as many innocents as possible, and maybe cover the EW & the other wolves' tracks. Just what I would have told Lommy if I had been the EW and picked her. Suits her nature well. :p

And good work Lommy, because I didn't even think you might be a wolf before you started accusing me.

I'm most probably going to vote for her today.

edit: xed since phantom's #411

Sorry, that post looks stupid because it's missing my original quotation. :rolleyes:

Heh heh... Actually that's pretty typical. Do you recall Fea's game? I had over 100 posts just on that thread. Mith kept track of posting counts. I found this one on one of the latter pages-
I have almost twice as many as SPM! That's quite an accomplishment if you ask me.

So really, this is pretty standard stuff from me.
Maybe less innocent, but I have not been less reasonable. Her attack post was a series of misquotes and grasping. I've been rather reasonable I'm thinking.